02-12-2019 Roger Castillo – this doesn’t have to be mission impossible

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this movement this seeking this process
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as far as I can see doesn’t actually
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have to be mission impossible it when we
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look at it it’s a change in the human
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being its life bringing about a change
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such that we are different to what we
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were before the process and what I’m
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calling a process it can sound mystical
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the process but really it’s about the
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human being being reconditioned
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receiving new conditioning that undoes
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that which is in us that forces us to
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relate to life in a way that feels
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uncomfortable so that’s why the teaching
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starts off with a very emphatic question
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it says and and the teaching is
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appealing to your intellect it’s
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bringing about change on the level of
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the body mind which includes the
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intellect it suggests isn’t it a valid
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question to ask if you find yourself
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seeking if you find yourself moving
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around the world visiting various
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teachers going to retreats
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reading a lot listening to YouTube
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videos and if you haven’t been seeking
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for long you can just ask people around
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you and you’ll find there are people
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that have been seeking for 10 20 30
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years and often along the way in the
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process feeling frustrated so the
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suggestion is isn’t it valid to ask this
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question actually what am I really
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looking for in practical terms so it
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says to ask a very practical question as
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if we if we ask the question really
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wanting a practical answer for our self
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so that we have the answer to that
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question then if we know we’re asking it
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from a practical point of view it’s much
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harder to get lost in running with a
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theoretical answer so if we don’t ask
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the question from a practical point of
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view like actually what is it that I’m
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really looking for what is it that I
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really need or want then if we don’t ask
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you from that point of view we might
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just ask it sort of like conceptually or
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what am I looking for and then someone
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says oh you’re looking for enlightenment
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and from that point of view it’s easy to
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go oh yeah okay I’m looking for
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enlightenment so when someone asks you
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what are you looking for you I’m looking
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for enlightenment or any number of
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concepts that I used to describe the
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search but may not actually give us a
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very practical answer to the question so
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the suggestion in the teaching here is
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that the answer to that question is that
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what we’re looking for is happiness in
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this life now if I left it at that
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I would be falling foul of exactly what
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I just suggested because happiness you
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know it’s a word and we really need to
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be clear in practical terms what the
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word means
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if that’s the answer because if you ask
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generally people what happiness means or
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what is happiness they’ll talk about
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times when they feel good in life when
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things are working out when they’re with
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friends when they’re having a party or
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drinking enjoying things so by and large
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humans are seeking happiness and leave
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happiness to be something that will be
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delivered through pleasure pleasure
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pleasure something that is dependent on
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circumstance and that’s part of the
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problem we’re seeking something that
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isn’t available if that’s what we’re
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looking for if we’re looking for a
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continuous happiness in the form of
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outcome circumstance pleasure
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hopefully we can come to the realization
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for ourselves based on a little bit of
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an investigation actually life is by
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nature circumstantial life the flow of
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life is by nature sometimes pleasure and
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sometimes pain that you know we are
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going to break bones we are going to get
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sick people are going to die others are
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going to steal things from us we’re
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going to forget things we’re going to
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miss aeroplanes they’re just examples a
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few examples of some of the circumstance
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in life that we can categorize as
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painful circumstance and then similarly
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we’re going to meet people that we like
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we’re going to enjoy good food we’re
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going to go on holiday and I have a
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great time and that’s circumstance that
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is pleasurable and how life unfolds in
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each moment or the circumstances whether
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it’s pleasurable or painful is not
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really in our control you know we might
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have an intention to go to a great place
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get there and find that it’s not at all
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what we thought it was going to be we
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might have no intention to go anywhere
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particular walk around the corner and
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find something amazing so the flow of
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life pleasure or pain and how it unfolds
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in each moment not in our control so the
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idea that I’m going to try and set up
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life so that it is pleasure pleasure
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pleasure pleasure is fanciful it’s an
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ideal and it caters to the deeply
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ingrained belief that we have inside
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that my happiness is dependent on life
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being pleasure pleasure pleasure so to
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the extent that we keep trying to set up
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life so that it is more pleasurable and
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I mean set up life with an attitude that
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is sort of quasi insistent the more that
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we do that the more we’re reinforcing
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the deeply ingrained belief that my
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happiness my completeness is to be found
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and outcomes and if we’re reinforcing
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that belief what that means is we’re
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going to have to keep insisting on life
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looking a certain way keep trying to
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make life look a certain way it’s a
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snowballing effect
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so if at some point we really register
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that there’s a deeply ingrained belief
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in us in humanity in general that our
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completeness is to be found one day in
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the future through circumstance being
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ideal through finding the ideal soulmate
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or being financially successful having
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great family and friends and so on being
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famous or popular so we need to register
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that this is the case that life has
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ingrained this sense that I am NOT I am
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not yet
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and I need to become one day I will be
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and that’s actually why this movement
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for trying to control life and trying to
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set up circumstances there because there
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is this yearning to be and the yearning
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to be continues to be there for as long
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as we feel that we are not and this
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movement towards pleasure is telling us
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I’m not I’m not yet and so when someone
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tells you you haven’t performed very
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well they criticize you then what
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they’re essentially telling you is
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you’re not you’re not good enough you’re
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not yet complete
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and when we have this ingrained belief
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inside of us that says yes I know I one
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day I will be when someone tells us that
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no you’re not yet we actually agree with
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them and so that criticism is painful
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the criticism is actually it’s more than
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painful it’s it’s taken extremely
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personally because either we agree that
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we’re not or we feel reminded that we’re
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not
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and so the going back to this suggested
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question what is it that we’re really
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looking for in life in practical terms
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and the answer that is suggested is we
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are looking for happiness but not
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happiness in the form of outcomes the
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happiness that is available that once
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it’s delivered is known to be this is
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what I was always looking for nothing
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more and nothing less
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the happiness that’s available that can
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be delivered is happiness through peace
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of mind happiness through unbroken peace
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of mind for the human being and daily
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living regardless of the circumstance we
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find ourself in which means at peace
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with the flow of life meaning at peace
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with life as it’s always going to be
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sometimes pleasure in sometimes pain
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that means that our happiness the
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happiness that is available for the
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human being is not a circumstantial
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happiness but rather an attitudinal
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happiness a happiness on the level of
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our attitude to life rather than the
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circumstance in life itself of life the
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circumstance of life itself and I
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encourage people not to believe that
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statement because if you believe the
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statement you might not have answered
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the question for yourself truly based on
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really wanting to know the answer so I
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could suggest that in order for us to
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know what we’re really looking for to be
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sure of the answer
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it could be a little tricky because if
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we had it we wouldn’t be looking for it
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so that means that okay we don’t have it
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on seeking so I don’t have it so how can
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I be sure of what I’m looking for make
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sense so one way is let’s look at the
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circumstance the situation the
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experience of life as it actually
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presents and so at times when you can be
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certain that in this moment you can be
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you can be certain say I am NOT happy in
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this moment where you can put your hand
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on your heart and not need to rely on
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any concept to tell you you’re not happy
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but you just know it I know in this
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moment I’m not happy and you investigate
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and you see what is there when you’re
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not happy and time and time again I say
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this because I understand the nature of
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unhappiness quite well time and time
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again we’ll find that what is present is
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not only a circumstance that is either
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pleasurable or painful but an attitude
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to the circumstance an attitude that in
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practical terms is arising as guilt
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blame pride worry and anxiety
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expectation or attachment to outcome an
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attitude that is based on the belief in
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personal due ership seeing oneself as a
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separate independent doer and complete
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control of everything that happens
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happens through through this person and
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therefore seeing the other as a separate
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independent doer and attributing
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personal doership onto everything that
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the other does so at the base of this
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attitude that is always there when we’re
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unhappy is a belief of personal doership
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and attachment to outcome and so as we
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see this time and time again we can
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start to see that my unhappiness is
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always attitudinal and it is based on
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the belief in personal doership an
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attachment to outcome and when we feel
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this unhappiness the best word to
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describe the feeling is in my experience
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as an uncomfortableness with oneself and
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uncomfortableness with the other and
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uncomfortableness with life ultimately
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an uncomfortableness with oneself and so
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if we start to become familiar based on
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an investigation of our own an
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investigation based on our own interest
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our own curiosity and our own life
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experience we can start to be quite
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certain that yes my unhappiness is
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attitudinal an attitude to circumstance
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where I see the other and myself as the
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doers the ones that have that are the
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ultimate cause of the circumstance and
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when the circumstance is painful which
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is seen to be an attack on where I’m
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trying to get to in order to become
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complete through pleasure pleasure
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pleasure
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when that circumstance is painful
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I then blame the other you hurt me you
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delivered pain to me which is an attack
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on where I’m trying to get it and tack
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on Who I am essentially so I hate you
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and if the action that delivered pain
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came through this body mind organism we
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have that attitude to ourself you say I
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as this doer that is meant to be able to
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get somewhere and achieve things have
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failed once again I have sabotage where
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I’m trying to get to I’m not good enough
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and that blame the resentments the
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hatred the sense of rivalry and
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competition towards the other for what
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they have done that has hurt you the
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load of guilt and shame towards yourself
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for those actions that happen in the
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past that you regret and feel is a a
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failing on your part that is preventing
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you from being happy that load of guilt
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and shame
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is covering up the piece that we’re
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really looking for
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so then the suggestion that what we’re
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looking for is peace of mind which is
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the absence of suffering and is
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available regardless of the circumstance
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we find ourselves in can start to be
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something that you’re verifying from
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your own experience albeit not your
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experience of peace of mind but your
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experience not your experience of peace
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of mind as happiness but from your own
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experience of what your unhappiness is
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and if as a result of starting the
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process from this practical perspective
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it then starts to make sense to
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investigate into the root of the
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suffering that arises following the
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concepts that are put forward then what
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we might find is that the working mind
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can at times start to cut off the
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thinking mind and the thinking mind is
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the part of our makeup that creates
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these thoughts of guilt and blame of
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expectation of pride of worry and
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anxiety and if that starts happening if
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the system starts to become equipped
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with an understanding that says all of
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their thinking is happening because life
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has designed me to have certain beliefs
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in place so that’s an understanding of
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why it’s happening and I understand that
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that story the story which holds the
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blame and the guilts together is
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actually an error and furthermore it’s
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what disturbs what I’m really looking
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for and if the working mind starts
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cutting off the thinking mind based on
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that deepening understanding and we
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start experiencing more peace we start
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experiencing life without the
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butter of the thinking mind without the
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uncomfortableness of the thinking line
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in each time the thinking mind gets cut
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off and we appreciate the simple piece
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with the circumstance however it happens
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to be so peace in the face of someone
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letting you down peace in the face of
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someone lying to you peace in the face
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of someone not fulfilling their
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obligations to you peace in the face of
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you having miscalculated or misread your
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flight booking and missing the airplane
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peace in the face of someone that you
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are close to dying as more and more of
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that is experienced
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then we experientially from our own
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experience can start to realize our this
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is what is available in life and
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attitude towards the pleasure and pain
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that is not an attitude that takes this
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as an attack on Who I am and as that
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starts to kick in and we start to feel
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complete meaning at peace not feeling
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attacked even when there is pain in the
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moment it becomes clear that the human
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being has a capacity to be at peace even
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when circumstance is painful so that
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starts to further erode so now we have a
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snowballing effect in the opposite
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direction we have our own experience
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that says I can be at peace which is
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happiness even in the face of painful
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circumstance that’s the very opposite of
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the deeply ingrained belief that is
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driving us to fight and compete with the
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other in order to get what we feel we
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need in order to be complete it’s
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completely opposite to that drive that
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is forcing us to keep expectations in
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our
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about how life in the future should be
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it’s in complete opposition to the
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feeling inside that is always judging
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what the other has done in this moment
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in the past and judging the moment as it
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presents as being out of line with my
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expectation all of which is a whole lot
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of hard tiresome work
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so as I said at the beginning this
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process to me doesn’t have to be
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approached as though it’s Mission
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Impossible if the search is kept
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practical if we start to become really
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clear on what it is I’m really looking
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for then
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the contemplation and the practices that
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start to become relevant and important
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are those that are specifically dealing
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with peace of mind and in practical
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terms because peace of mind is simply
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the absence of suffering and the
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practices in contemplation become those
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that are focused on understanding
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suffering understanding why it’s based
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on a set of errors and that simple
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understanding the seeing is bound to be
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what’s most powerful at undoing and
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changing the system because for as long
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as something is believed to be true it
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gets defended and each time we defend
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something we give power to it we support
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it we reiterate it we say I am defending
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this because it’s true so the very act
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of defending a belief or functioning in
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line with that belief is reinforcing it
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so as it seemed to be untrue doesn’t
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mean it’s going to dissolve
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instantaneously we could say that there
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is a an instantaneous dissolving of it
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but what that really means is that as it
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seemed the Foundation’s rocked and so
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it’s not what it was before but like an
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earthquake
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um disturbing and and destabilizing a
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building um in that instant you can say
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the building isn’t what it was before
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but it may not collapse but it’s been
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heavily destabilized and so as these
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belief systems that are in place a scene
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for ourself to be inaccurate which means
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we have to start seeing life as it’s
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explained and the tainless teaching
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start seeing it for ourself and saying
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well actually that is an accurate
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description I don’t know why I’ve never
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looked at life that way before makes
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sense because it’s not really described
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from that perspective very often and
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because the beliefs are so deeply
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ingrained they have a strong effect on
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how life is experienced which then gives
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us the feedback that life is the way we
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believe it to be so it takes
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explanations to come in essentially
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essentially we can say life because
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everything that’s happening is ascent is
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part of life so life delivering new
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conditioning new explanations that
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hopefully bring us to see things that we
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haven’t been interested or seen before
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and then look at that which has been
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seen relative to the ingrained beliefs
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and hopefully there’s a big contrast
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hopefully there’s a big gap between
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what’s believed and therefore how we
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find ourself functioning in life and
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what we’re starting to see differently
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if there’s a big gap that’s great news
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because what it says
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is there is an error in place in the
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system so coming to see that there’s an
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error is great news because it means
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that’s why peace of mind for the human
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being is available because peace of mind
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is the absence of the false beliefs
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false beliefs of who we are and how why
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it is things happen the way they happen
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the peace of mind is the absence of
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those beliefs and if they were true then
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it wouldn’t be realistic to expect those
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to change it would mean that in order
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for them to change would have to become
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deluded we’d have to overlook the truth
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and start believing something that isn’t
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true so that to me doesn’t seem like a
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great sort of freedom however if there
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is this gap and it starts to show us
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that our deeply ingrained beliefs are
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actually erroneous then that’s great
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because it means the error can be
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corrected the flour the expression of
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the erroneous set of beliefs if the
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belief is corrected and dissolves can’t
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arise anymore
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so once again the two beliefs that are
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ingrained as part of our makeup part of
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our genes and up-to-date-conditioning
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the words or the concept genes and
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up-to-date-conditioning is it is it’s a
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concept that describes the two factors
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that make up a human being so the genes
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part really means our DNA and the DNA
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determines everything determines the
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type of skin we have the color of the
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skin the type of hair we have the color
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of the hair the eyes the intelligent the
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brain structure the way the organs have
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grown any dispositions so whether our
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fingers grow a certain way are initially
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determined by the genetic structure code
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and then that genetic structure which
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starts to grow at the time when the
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sperm and the egg come together so at
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that point the genetic intelligence the
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genetic blueprint that we didn’t put in
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place starts to grow starts to develop
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starts to turn into the physical
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including the organs and the brain and
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that organism that is growing growing
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growing according to life not according
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to the organisms free will that organism
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that is growing doesn’t exist
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independently from the environment in
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which it grows and the environment is
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impacting that organism on a continuous
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basis moment after moment after moment
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impacting means that the organism is not
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separate from it it is in life and so
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the development of the organism can’t be
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said to be restricted just to the
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genetic structure but the genetic
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structure and the environment that it
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finds itself in so
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two together so they’re not really to
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the two as a conceptual distinction we
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create a conceptual distinction of genes
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and up-to-date-conditioning in order for
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us to understand more clearly the
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concept some point we realize actually
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they’re not – it’s that’s what the human
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being is the the the genes and how the
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genes have been affected in each moment
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by life so I guess I was explaining why
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we’re not the doers which is one of the
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core beliefs at the base of the
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suffering that the human being grows and
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the human beings a result of the genes
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and up-to-date-conditioning two factors
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that we were never in control of and
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will never be in control of we didn’t
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choose the parents we were born to the
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country we were born into the political
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situation the cultural norms and beliefs
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the religious and political beliefs
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because we didn’t choose the parents
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were born – we didn’t choose the genes
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that we have and so we’ve developed into
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what we are now what we’ve always been
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in each moment is it was a result of
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this development of the body-mind
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organism and so the thinking is an
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output it’s an expression it’s actually
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not separate from the body mind organism
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the thoughts that arise in this moment
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are a result of the complexity of the
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body mind organism and that complexity
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is a result of the growth the growth
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which was based on the genes of DNA and
31:05
how
31:07
that that structure was impacted by
31:12
everything it was exposed to in life so
31:20
the reactions that we have in each
31:22
moment good bad the feelings the
31:26
emotions the thoughts the behaviors the
31:29
movements are really all very impersonal
31:34
impersonal in the sense that they are
31:36
not something that I as some sort of
31:42
independent entity so we have this self
31:46
image of our self as an entity that has
31:52
this free will and volition that
31:55
whatever so that means that there is a
31:58
self image of me as someone that can
32:02
choose what to do and that choice is
32:08
completely mine is ie the choices not
32:18
influenced by anything other than me
32:23
so this me that when I say me what am i
32:27
referring down I’m referring to an
32:29
imagination over me
32:32
it’s a imagination that is inserted into
32:37
what is actually happening in the
32:39
mechanism of life unfolding because
32:42
what’s happening in the mechanism is
32:44
there is a biological instrument there
32:49
is a biological and psychological
32:51
organism that has been shaped by life
32:53
and that organism functions
32:56
automatically in each moment just like a
33:01
calculator has been designed to function
33:05
a particular way and so we can see a
33:08
calculator and it receives inputs and
33:12
according to its design an output is
33:15
presented
33:18
but there isn’t any independent entity
33:21
there producing the output there’s an
33:25
output as a result of a machine that is
33:30
receiving inputs that the machine isn’t
33:35
in control of the machine is forced to
33:39
calculate to function the way it’s
33:42
designed and it has to output a specific
33:45
output it doesn’t have an option and the
33:50
human being if we look at it objectively
33:52
is no different in principle very
33:58
different in complexity but no different
34:02
in principle and it I think it’s fair to
34:06
say that we don’t relate to ourself that
34:09
way we don’t see the other that way we
34:16
don’t have a problem looking at a
34:19
calculator and seeing it as a machine
34:21
and understanding that it has no
34:24
independent existence from let’s say the
34:29
factory if you want to say the factory
34:30
that it came out of it is a it is
34:34
spawned by the designer and the factory
34:38
it it has no it’s never disconnected
34:41
from there it’s always influenced by the
34:44
design and the construction of the
34:46
machine and so anything it produces it
34:50
can’t claim to be its own creation
35:02
so the human being doesn’t see itself
35:07
like this now what what I’m putting
35:09
forward can be very offensive to the
35:12
deeply ingrained belief of personal
35:14
doership the deeply ingrained belief of
35:17
personal doership will resist what is
35:20
being put forward because essentially
35:22
that’s this description is an attack on
35:25
what it believes itself to be and if we
35:29
look and say so if the belief of
35:32
personal doership is there if this
35:34
identity this imagination of I am a doer
35:40
I am us an independent entity exists why
35:45
does it exist it can only exist on the
35:49
basis that life has designed the
35:52
instrument to think that way so even
35:58
that insistence even the reaction that
36:02
doesn’t like what is being said isn’t is
36:07
happening isn’t an inevitability if the
36:10
body-mind organism is designed a
36:13
particular way so the question is why
36:19
well it’s not really a question but
36:21
hopefully we can go past any resistance
36:27
and say well actually if I look at it
36:31
objectively is it an accurate
36:34
description is it fair to say that in
36:38
each moment I will function according to
36:40
the way life has designed me and that I
36:44
can’t really find any part of me that
36:50
wasn’t designed by these two factors or
36:54
isn’t dependent on these two factors
36:56
genes and up-to-date-conditioning two
36:58
factors that life is responsible for
37:02
delivering and not me responsible for
37:05
delivering so
37:11
this is the core of our suffering this
37:15
is the core of human suffering the
37:17
belief in personal doership coupled with
37:20
the belief that my happiness is to be
37:23
found in outcomes put those two things
37:28
together the belief that sees myself is
37:32
completely responsible and therefore
37:34
sees everyone else is completely
37:36
responsible and sees happiness as
37:41
circumstantial and what you have is a
37:44
recipe for psychological resistance a
37:51
recipe for judgment and in that
37:58
psychological resistance in their
38:01
judgment there has to be an
38:03
uncomfortableness with oneself in the
38:05
other because the resistance is a
38:10
resistance against those things that are
38:13
happening in life that are taken to be
38:15
an attack on who we are so it doesn’t
38:19
make sense that we can feel at peace in
38:25
the face of feeling attacked attacked on
38:29
a level of our being
38:47
so guilt blame and pride all based on
38:51
the belief that I am the one that is
38:55
responsible for how I function
38:57
I’m the one that dictates whether I have
39:01
good traits or bad traits the other is
39:05
responsible for how they function
39:07
they’re the ones that dictate whether
39:09
they have good traits of bad traits and
39:12
therefore when the body-mind organism
39:17
the person the human being functions and
39:20
the outcome is an outcome that is
39:23
painful then that attitude that says I
39:28
am the one that dictates how I perform
39:31
has to kick in and feel shame guilt and
39:35
shame when the other functions in a way
39:40
that deliver delivers pain that attitude
39:43
has to and you can’t not it it’s there
39:46
so it has to jump into action and hate
39:51
the other for what they have done that
39:54
delivered pain and pride is the same
39:59
attitude of personal doership but
40:01
instead of jumping on the outcomes that
40:04
are painful the outcomes as a result of
40:07
what myself or the other have done
40:10
pride is jumps on the outcomes that are
40:13
pleasurable and says look what I’ve done
40:17
look how good I am and that’s why the
40:22
saying is there that pride comes before
40:25
the fall saying if if you’re gonna feel
40:28
proud and feel that you as a doer have
40:33
achieved this it’s not gonna take long
40:35
for life to deliver what it always does
40:39
painful circumstance outcome that is not
40:44
in line with your expectations and sure
40:47
enough is going to deliver outcomes that
40:49
are not in line with your expectations
40:51
that have resulted from actions that you
40:54
have performed and then the pride
41:00
to turn into the fall which is feeling
41:04
guilt and shame or blame towards the
41:10
owner
41:42
Michael are you jumping out of your skin
41:44
to ask a question or challenge what I’ve
41:47
said yes
41:50
yes sure one two working two questions
42:04
one would be I think you talked about
42:09
what can go wrong and the logical
42:16
question for me would be how do it
42:18
better or to do it better that’s one
42:21
question a more practical question and
42:28
it feels like what you’re talking about
42:32
is genes on one hand
42:36
up-to-date-conditioning of what of what
42:40
can be conditioned which is the body
42:44
mind system but there’s something which
42:48
is what I experienced which is somehow
42:52
outside of this system of the body mind
42:55
system which we could call consciousness
42:57
which is actually independent which in
43:01
my experience cannot be influenced at
43:04
least the core cannot be influenced I
43:06
can be aware of things but the awareness
43:09
itself or people could call witness or
43:12
whatever is actually something which is
43:14
completely independent independent it
43:16
seems to be even independent of time and
43:19
space so it seems to be something weird
43:21
out there and we didn’t talk about it so
43:25
far okay yeah but I believe that this
43:28
instance what we could call
43:30
consciousness is actually the core and
43:33
the answer to the first question if we
43:39
look from there things change
43:42
dramatically that’s what I feel
43:44
yes
43:45
not if the suffering is present in its
43:51
intensity if the suffering is present in
43:54
its intensity there isn’t any capacity
43:57
because what is taking center stage is
44:00
the suffering and so usually when a
44:04
shift happens the shift where the
44:09
suffering is witnessed and seen which i
44:13
think is what you’re talking about where
44:15
we sort of find ourselves aware of life
44:19
from a different perspective it can it
44:22
can seem like oh the shift is what has
44:26
made the suffering insignificant but I
44:28
would suggest that the whole experience
44:30
has changed from the moment where the
44:33
suffering was all-encompassing and there
44:38
was no perspective and then in the next
44:40
moment the experience is shaped where
44:45
there is this witnessing and it can seem
44:51
like the witnessing has solved the
44:53
problem in the sense that the witnessing
44:56
has made the suffering lose its sting I
45:00
would say that in the two experiences
45:03
the suffering is radically different is
45:07
one experience where there is let’s say
45:10
no witnessing and the suffering is
45:11
all-encompassing and then in another
45:16
moment when a shift happens we call it a
45:18
shift which makes it implies that there
45:21
is the suffering is the same suffering
45:26
and it’s just seen from a different
45:28
perspective but it could be that the
45:31
whole experience is radically different
45:34
that’s why it feels so different two
45:38
different experiences one that creates
45:41
the impression that the the solution is
45:47
here because it’s being witnessed but
45:49
what I’m saying doesn’t doesn’t detract
45:54
from your point so I want I won’t carry
45:57
on down that
45:58
accepted to some extent if we become
46:01
more technical in it and not so much
46:05
more technical because you mentioned
46:07
that the consciousness is is separate or
46:10
independent now that’s a statement that
46:12
I know what you’re pointing at but I
46:15
can’t really agree with it but we’ll we
46:19
can discuss that um so your first
46:24
question started off by asking saying I
46:28
suggested what can go wrong and then
46:32
your question is how can we correct that
46:35
you know when you point when you said
46:39
that I suggested what can go wrong what
46:42
do you what were you talking about as in
46:43
the error that gets put in place my life
46:47
I think you have your your five fingers
46:49
of the right hand and each finger stands
46:52
for something yeah these five yeah these
46:54
five singer fingers I mean yeah and then
46:57
I think you have you have two additional
46:58
ones right I think you need at least I
47:00
think after seven in total well no I I
47:03
put on the on the fourth and the fifth
47:05
finger you do – there are – yeah right
47:08
yeah so actually it’s seven right well
47:10
no because the two that are on the these
47:12
two fingers interrelated so worry worry
47:18
and anxiety
47:18
you can see how worry and anxiety just
47:22
different forms of the same energy and
47:27
expectation and attachment to outcomes
47:29
are also interconnected so you have an
47:32
expectation of how things can look and
47:35
when it doesn’t happen like that there
47:38
is a attitudinal resistance to the fact
47:41
it hasn’t turned out that way so these
47:44
two which have sort of two prongs to
47:47
them I still happy to keep them happy
47:50
that my hand doesn’t have seven fingers
47:53
so the five forms of suffering arise
48:00
because there is a certain belief system
48:02
in this in in the in the human a human
48:05
with the belief in personal doership an
48:08
attachment to outcome and so if that’s
48:10
there it’s just cause and effect that if
48:14
the belief is there and an outcome or a
48:18
circumstance happens it’s going to be
48:20
interpreted through that belief and
48:22
therefore the guilt blame pride etc will
48:27
arise so it’s not something that we’re
48:30
doing wrong but rather it’s happening
48:35
according to our makeup which includes
48:39
those deeply ingrained beliefs of
48:41
personal dealership and attachment to
48:42
outcome and from a far back perspective
48:46
no problem who cares that suffering
48:49
arises you know it’s just part of life
48:52
it’s a valid color of the life
48:56
experience that’s from the you know some
49:00
ultimate standpoint perspective but from
49:03
the perspective of the human being
49:04
that’s seeking something when it becomes
49:10
clear that what we’re seeking actually
49:12
in practical terms is just the end of
49:13
suffering then we can say relative to
49:16
that particular outcome suffering is
49:24
relatively speaking the problem so we
49:29
shouldn’t turn it into a fundamental
49:31
problem because fundamentally when we
49:34
take a more ultimate standpoint it’s
49:37
just part of life so it isn’t a problem
49:41
to life just like viruses that kill
49:45
things it’s part of life so from a
49:49
broader perspective it isn’t the problem
49:52
life wouldn’t be life if it wasn’t there
49:58
from a relative point of view so let’s
50:02
say relative to human health we can say
50:04
that virus is
50:06
a problem and so when we come down to
50:09
this question what am I really looking
50:10
for I’m looking for peace of mind the
50:13
suffering you can say is a problem but
50:15
it’s very important to understand the
50:17
basis on which the suffering arises
50:19
which is not my doing so then we don’t
50:22
say it is the problem and I’m the
50:26
problem for doing it we can look at the
50:33
body mind organism the person and say
50:36
well I’m doing it who else is doing it
50:39
and we can agree yes it’s happening in
50:41
this body mind organism but the
50:44
important attitude is to stew it we can
50:47
acknowledge it yes I am doing it but I’m
50:49
forced to do it because life has
50:53
designed me a particular way and so the
50:57
answer is of how does it not happen this
51:02
it’s it’s a simple deductive reasoning
51:05
if it’s happening because this is in
51:07
place it will stop happening when this
51:11
which is the beliefs in doer ship and
51:13
attachment to outcome are not in place
51:17
so that’s how the suffering stops and
51:20
how did it get put in place it got put
51:24
in place by life so how is it gonna get
51:26
taken away by life um what does it mean
51:33
it was put in place by life so what I’m
51:36
suggesting another example in if someone
51:39
knows how to do simple addition two plus
51:44
two equals four why is that happening
51:47
it’s happening because their design is
51:49
such that they can function that way how
51:52
did that put it get put in place it got
51:55
put in place by life how did life put it
51:58
in place because life delivered primary
52:02
education in a school system so that’s
52:06
life putting in place the the
52:10
up-to-date-conditioning that allows
52:13
simple arithmetic to happen in the same
52:17
way life put in place
52:19
the beliefs of personal do ership an
52:22
attachment to outcome which allows the
52:26
suffering to happen life has to undo it
52:30
by putting us in satsang for example and
52:35
delivering new conditioning new
52:39
conditioning delivered as part and
52:41
parcel of life so you being here
52:45
according to this concept is not because
52:49
some separate independent me decided for
52:53
that to happen but rather because life
52:56
put in place a whole sequence of events
53:00
and in this case it’s quite fitting that
53:04
two weeks ago I saw you riding on your
53:07
scooter down the street recognized you
53:10
at a distance while you were on this
53:11
ride and waved and you stopped and said
53:16
oh you’re in town
53:17
are you giving talks and described it
53:20
and so on the one hand we you can say or
53:25
I decided to come today when we look at
53:28
it we find you decided to come because
53:31
of a whole lot of factors that you
53:35
weren’t entirely in control of including
53:38
importantly your genes and
53:41
up-to-date-conditioning that delivered
53:44
the thought okay I’m going to go today
53:46
and then when you come what I have to
53:50
say is not in your control I don’t even
53:53
know what I’m gonna say half the time
53:55
and then how it impacts us how what
53:59
changes it makes in us also not in our
54:02
control we leave and then we might
54:05
notice certain things that have changed
54:08
because we can see our behavior changing
54:10
but until our behavior changed we
54:13
wouldn’t really know what impact it’s
54:16
had until our behavior or our thoughts
54:19
have changed maybe that’s the reason I’m
54:24
completely on your side when it comes to
54:26
the question the worship yes or no
54:28
I think the worship is an illusion it’s
54:30
cute but it’s obviously wrong
54:32
I think you started at the session with
54:39
what are we doing when we are seeking
54:41
for something and I feel that seeking is
54:45
part of the problem itself it is because
54:47
seeking implies that I have to do
54:49
something that I have to do something I
54:50
can do something and it’s actually the
54:54
opposite of just letting life do its
54:58
work exactly I think some I think I
55:01
don’t remember when you said it but you
55:02
I think you posted on Facebook or you
55:06
said that somewhere
55:07
let life live through you I think this
55:11
is actually the most beautiful picture
55:12
because this means shut up let life do
55:16
the work yeah and it actually it stops
55:21
us from the illusion of I have to do
55:24
this and I can do this and that’s why
55:30
I’m always a little bit skeptical when
55:31
it comes to terminology and just a cult
55:39
or a certain frame set on one hit it’s
55:45
it’s very practical and it looks good on
55:49
the other hand I think maybe this
55:52
activates something in our body mind
55:54
system which believes I have to know
55:57
these things which finger and what is it
55:59
and I have to know them by heart and if
56:01
I don’t know them that I don’t get the
56:03
point and then I’m not ready yet so
56:04
stress and to worship again yeah but
56:08
it’s true on yes Eric going because you
56:11
make a very good point jumping yeah no
56:13
so what do you what you’re saying is is
56:15
very true but what the important nuance
56:20
that changes something from being
56:23
problematic to not problematic is the
56:26
attitude with which we approach it right
56:30
because the fact is if you don’t get
56:31
told what the problem is then it’s very
56:36
likely that it doesn’t get fixed sure
56:39
yeah no am I sure or you’re saying sure
56:42
no no I’m sure about about this last
56:45
statement
56:45
um I I’m sure in a context I can explain
56:49
so even let’s say if you go in another
56:53
teaching and they don’t give you any of
56:55
these things right but they say look
56:59
just don’t worry about life you know
57:01
relax
57:03
become aware of your own consciousness
57:06
that’s all that’s really important
57:09
that’s a teaching and it’s told you
57:14
about things that you didn’t know that
57:15
you need to know so um it’s delivered
57:20
differently it’s delivered in a way that
57:24
is specifically aware of how the
57:26
thinking mind will grab hold of concepts
57:29
and so it delivers the concepts in very
57:36
different form in and it delivers
57:38
specific concepts that don’t sound like
57:41
concepts so it’s the concept of no
57:45
concept but when we look at it it’s
57:48
actually not even a concept of no
57:51
concept it’s a concept of stopping it’s
57:55
a concept of resting in your and
57:58
becoming aware of the consciousness now
58:02
once again if that’s heard with an
58:05
attitude of okay you’ve told me what I
58:08
need to do you’ve told me what the
58:09
problem is now I have to get it done
58:11
the thinking mind is there and it’s
58:14
doing the complete opposite of what’s
58:16
being suggested it’s not starting so if
58:19
the if the teacher sees that which
58:24
becomes very apparent when certain
58:25
questions are asked and it says no no
58:28
stop don’t go anyway so it’s always
58:34
giving us information that we need a
58:37
teaching as always giving us information
58:39
that we need um and that’s why this
58:45
teaching is one pointing at the nandu
58:48
ership and describing it because at a
58:53
certain time when the working mind
58:55
understand
58:56
that Nandu ship doesn’t mean functioning
59:00
not happening it doesn’t mean thinking
59:01
not happening
59:02
it doesn’t mean working not happening
59:06
but it means a witnessing or a coming to
59:12
see the thinking and the working as a
59:15
happening and not anyone’s doing and so
59:19
if that shift happens then the thinking
59:25
about guilt and blame can happen but not
59:31
in a way that it used to let’s say
59:34
happen whether belief and ership and the
59:36
thinking mind was holding on to it and
59:39
saying I have to get somewhere so these
59:45
descriptions really really this is why I
59:49
say it doesn’t have to be Mission
59:50
Impossible if a teaching doesn’t give
59:54
practical descriptions then the process
60:01
is a process that can seem to not get
60:07
any well there’s not that it doesn’t get
60:08
any always it depends on someone
60:10
someone’s destiny because they can hear
60:12
a teaching that just suggests become
60:15
aware of that which is aware of life and
60:21
one or two pointings create an awareness
60:25
of that which has always been here and
60:27
has never been recognized and on the
60:30
other hand there can be another person
60:33
which is often the large majority that
60:37
are continually taking those
60:40
descriptions and expecting it to be
60:41
something and that expectation gets in
60:44
the way of the simple realization and
60:46
then even when a realization happens
60:49
then there is an expectation that it
60:51
needs to be more than this and then it
60:59
becomes a much harder mission because
61:02
the guidelines like actual
61:05
tickle descriptions haven’t been given
61:07
now if you only give practical
61:08
descriptions there can be a problem with
61:13
that because the resting in the being
61:16
which you pointed at resting in the core
61:20
isn’t happening and so we might find
61:24
ourselves stuck in thinking that
61:27
thinking thinking is the solution if I
61:30
understand it then that will be enough
61:33
and that clear isn’t so this is why
61:36
hopefully we can bring the ontological
61:39
teachings of being and the descriptions
61:44
of what gets in the way of being
61:46
together and at a certain point the
61:50
intellect the working mind realizes that
61:53
these descriptions have been taken on as
61:56
prescriptions and it realizes that
61:59
whenever that happens we are further
62:02
away from being we feel more
62:05
uncomfortable after a while than even
62:07
before the seeking started and if the
62:11
working mind can see that and realize
62:13
I’ve turned this into an expectation
62:15
I’ve turned this into something that I
62:18
believe I as a separate independent doer
62:21
can make happen and why hasn’t it
62:24
happened yet why haven’t I succeeded so
62:28
if the descriptions are understood as
62:33
descriptions of the problem and received
62:36
by the working mind when the thinking
62:37
mind grabs hold of the concepts and
62:39
starts doing its its its thing which
62:45
always results in an uncomfortableness
62:47
and if we become clear that when there’s
62:50
an uncomfortableness it’s because the
62:52
thinking might have kicked in and so
62:54
then that becomes an opportunity for the
62:56
working mind to observe and understand
62:59
the problem as described even more
63:03
intimately for itself based on seeing it
63:05
in action
63:06
seeing the thinking mind having taken
63:09
over so gradually the concepts
63:17
stop being food for the thinking mind
63:21
and start to become descriptions that
63:24
can home the working mind at continually
63:28
seeing the functioning of the thinking
63:31
mind that is disturbing the peace so
63:38
there is a benefit in the descriptions
63:42
but as you say they can very easily get
63:45
hijacked by the thinking mind and create
63:51
a sense exactly as you said that this is
63:55
now what I need to achieve so why this
64:03
consciousness you said it’s independent
64:07
of the body let’s look at why I can’t
64:12
entirely agree with that we can have an
64:17
experiential shift where the quality of
64:20
the experience changes and we can know
64:23
that that’s an object and that’s an
64:29
object and from this qualitative shift
64:33
in experience even the thoughts are seen
64:35
as objects and the body is seen as an
64:40
object and while resting in this being
64:46
you could say it includes the sense of
64:51
well-being the sense of existence and
64:55
the sense that is delivered is that what
64:58
I am is not the body but this which is
65:01
aware the body is an object that’s the
65:08
sense of that comes in that experience
65:10
and so because of that we draw a
65:13
conclusion that says the body and the
65:16
consciousness are two that the
65:22
consciousness is separate from the body
65:24
or prior to the body
65:29
and whatever happens in the flow of life
65:33
what happens to the body doesn’t touch
65:36
the consciousness because they are
65:38
essentially on different levels or
65:40
separate that they’re – and if we become
65:49
a little bit more critical with our
65:52
thinking we might acknowledge that yes
65:57
there are two different states you could
66:00
say two different states of
66:02
consciousness two different qualitative
66:04
experience the experiences that feel
66:07
qualitatively different but if I were to
66:11
come along and shoot the body in the
66:16
head while this other qualitative
66:20
experience was happening the the
66:23
experience where the consciousness knows
66:26
itself as awareness or beingness and is
66:32
witnessing the body is merely an object
66:38
based on our conclusion that they are
66:42
separate that what I am is not the body
66:45
on that basis if someone were to come
66:48
along and shoot the body in the head and
66:50
kill it the being would remain okay just
66:59
check it’s on just in case I would say
67:02
that the very fact that they are
67:04
independent doesn’t mean that they have
67:07
to exist independently okay yep
67:10
good so they could be real ism that
67:12
could be something that they are
67:13
parallel I mean so we have to discuss
67:19
the independency for example does one
67:23
need the other to exist but let’s say
67:26
one needs the other to exist so they
67:28
could be independent in a way that there
67:30
is no effect from one to the other
67:32
yes which so they’re not in the if they
67:36
if they’re interdependent they can’t be
67:39
independent so if one requires the other
67:42
in order to
67:43
exist then they’re interdependent um so
67:46
we can’t say they independent but your
67:48
point is even if they are interdependent
67:52
which in this teaching framework we say
67:58
they I say they are because the human
68:03
being is described as the consciousness
68:06
of source linked to a particular body
68:09
mind organism and functioning through
68:12
that body mind organism as personal
68:14
consciousness meaning personal
68:16
consciousness is the experience that
68:18
each of us has in each moment of life so
68:23
your experience of this moment of life
68:26
is what I’m calling your personal
68:28
consciousness experience and the
68:30
experience I have in this moment is
68:33
Rogers personal consciousness experience
68:35
which is there because there is
68:36
consciousness functioning through this
68:38
body however the body is is very
68:46
relevant as far as the personal
68:49
consciousness experience goes and
68:51
sometimes if there are various peak
68:53
experiences and shifts that are
69:00
influenced by spiritual teachings that
69:04
are encouraging the brain essentially or
69:08
encouraging the human to take a
69:09
different perspective on things so the
69:13
the very spiritual teachings are
69:14
continually suggesting things that we
69:17
don’t ordinarily do and that’s new
69:21
conditioning and at some point it has an
69:24
effect and so when it has an effect it
69:31
can feel like the consciousness is
69:35
independent from the body and yet when
69:38
you look at the personal consciousness
69:41
experience it has this sense of
69:45
independence as if I’m aware from no
69:49
point in particular so delocalized not
69:53
centric to the body and yet if the body
69:57
covers if the hands cover the eyes or
69:59
someone puts their hands over your eyes
70:01
or something happens relative to the
70:06
body what we notice is the personal
70:08
consciousness experienced in that moment
70:09
even though it feels it’s being aware
70:13
from a point outside of the body and
70:16
that it’s not doesn’t even require the
70:23
body that when something happens and the
70:25
eyes are covered up the personal
70:27
consciousness experience changes to
70:29
indicate to us that even though it feels
70:31
like awareness is aware from outside of
70:33
the body it’s still functioning through
70:35
the body because the personal
70:38
consciousness experience changes when
70:42
the the body is affected the senses of
70:47
the body and so then we become clearer
70:50
ah it’s always from the perspective of
70:52
the body the experience is always from
70:54
the perspective of the body even if it
70:55
feels like it’s out-of-body so this
70:59
starts to become an interesting
71:02
exploration for us to have of our own
71:04
experiences so that we can then start
71:06
refining how we relate to those
71:10
experience refining the concepts we use
71:13
because if we have a concept which is
71:18
essentially a conclusion or in in many
71:21
cases the conclusion we’ve drawn based
71:23
on the experience as its presented and
71:26
how we’ve interpreted that experience
71:28
and what we’ve decided that experience
71:31
is informing me of so if we start to
71:34
adjust that a little bit our concept of
71:39
it changes and that can be very
71:41
important because we can start to
71:43
understand the actual dynamics more more
71:47
closely or more more accurately so what
71:52
I completely agree with is that the core
71:56
of the human being that is consciousness
72:00
that without consciousness the life
72:04
experience can’t be there
72:08
we can’t have an experience of daily
72:11
living without consciousness being here
72:14
so we have to conclude that daily living
72:15
is interdependent at least the
72:18
experience of daily living is
72:20
interdependent on consciousness the
72:23
experience of being a a body or having
72:26
the body or being a person in a world is
72:30
interdependent on consciousness and from
72:34
our experience we also have to
72:36
acknowledge that consciousness is
72:38
interdependent on a life experience
72:41
being present because we don’t we might
72:45
believe theoretically or have a concept
72:48
theoretically that consciousness is
72:51
ever-present and unchanging but actually
72:55
when we really come down to it we
72:57
realize I only know consciousness in the
73:00
presence of either daily living or the
73:03
dream state meaning that in order for
73:08
consciousness to be there there needs to
73:10
be something to witness or something to
73:15
be aware of so then we come to the
73:19
conclusion that consciousness is
73:21
interdependent with experience and
73:24
experience is interdependent with
73:27
consciousness um once again that
73:31
witnessing state tells us informs us
73:34
differently the witnessing States is
73:37
what I am is the background of
73:39
consciousness or awareness and all of
73:43
the content comes and goes so the
73:45
content is changing yet what I am is
73:49
unchanging once we start to see the
73:53
interdependence so it requires a
73:56
conceptual shift in our head a little
73:58
bit once we acknowledge there is an
74:01
interdependence of consciousness and
74:05
experience the object and vice-versa
74:11
then this notion of the objects and the
74:16
consciousness being two can’t be
74:19
sustained
74:20
so now we come back now we’re really
74:23
getting into non-duality so the irony is
74:26
that the I don’t know I won’t say the
74:29
first stage but a shift where it appears
74:35
that the consciousness and the
74:37
experience of two and independent which
74:43
becomes when we look at it that’s the
74:46
Pepitone but fit me the epitome my
74:52
brains are the epitome of duality I am
74:59
consciousness and I am not that I am
75:05
unchanging and that is all changing when
75:09
it’s seen no they are not independent
75:12
they arise simultaneous to each other
75:14
then that sort of conceptual separation
75:18
that’s been created that can create that
75:20
creates a very experiential benefit to
75:23
us right it can further integrate the
75:29
integration doesn’t mean that we lose
75:31
connection to being and what I know your
75:38
point is that when there is an awareness
75:44
of our being a resting in our being a
75:47
being what we are at our core there is a
75:53
vulnerability that comes in in
75:57
vulnerability from finding ourself at
76:00
peace untouched at our core by whatever
76:07
is happening in the flow of life so that
76:11
is an essential part of the teaching an
76:15
essential part of the movement towards
76:20
peace of mind in daily living not only
76:23
does the suffering needs need to
76:25
dissolve not only does the do the
76:29
beliefs at the core of the suffering
76:31
need to dissolve but
76:33
shift into resting in the part of the
76:38
human beam that was previously obscured
76:40
because of the suffering and the
76:45
combination of those two things is what
76:49
delivers peace of mind it’s this resting
76:52
in being that becomes our proof that my
76:57
happiness isn’t to be found and outcomes
77:04
yes yeah yes thank you for the last
77:10
sentence exactly yeah this this was
77:11
actually the circle I was I was hoping
77:14
for to get there and to get actually the
77:17
the beauty of the perspective as the
77:20
answer to how to solve the five fingers
77:22
mm-hm
77:24
exactly so when those shifts happen
77:27
which don’t have to happen because we
77:30
can start talking about the qualitative
77:32
shift and then it can become believed
77:38
that’s what it’s about
77:40
whereas the teaching says no what are
77:43
you really looking for that’s why this
77:45
question is asked and the answer is I’m
77:48
looking for peace of mind the absence of
77:52
suffering in daily living now if that’s
77:57
not kept clear what can happen is we can
77:59
start to believe what I’m looking for is
78:02
a shift in state or a change in state
78:09
without realizing that actually the only
78:11
reason that we’re interested in a change
78:15
of state is because it delivers peace of
78:17
mind
78:21
ma’am I don’t want to stop the whole is
78:25
worth one okay I feel if you if you say
78:31
if you point at me and you say Michael
78:34
what are you looking for usually it’s a
78:37
personal question
78:38
so usually maybe it comes through with
78:40
your background maybe it comes from one
78:42
place from two places I don’t know I
78:44
don’t need to distinguish but usually if
78:46
you find if you point to someone then
78:49
usually you address his or her personal
78:51
state mined areas fear energy
78:55
this is triggered and what I feel if I
79:00
hear this question then I think okay now
79:02
actually the personal mind with my goals
79:04
what I think is this personal sphere
79:12
actually is is okay is meant is pointed
79:19
to you need the green green light needs
79:26
to be on okay well you talk talk without
79:38
the thing and I’ll repeat the question
79:58
let’s do it sure so just to repeat for
80:50
the recording in brief you’re saying
80:53
that when I ask the question what are
80:55
you looking for the way it’s asked is
80:58
that it’s and pointed Michael it’s
81:02
asking the person what the person is
81:04
looking for and that can in itself be a
81:09
dangerous style of question because it
81:13
triggers the normal seeking mechanism
81:17
that the person has in place and you’re
81:24
correct except when it when the question
81:29
exists within a teaching framework that
81:34
understands what the problem is and and
81:38
spends a lot of time defining the
81:42
problem the error and the solution to
81:48
the error then in a teaching like that
81:51
the question in itself is given an
81:55
answer a suggested answer so it says
81:58
what we’re looking for is happiness
82:02
through peace of mind so what it means
82:03
is not what the seeker is looking for
82:07
but rather
82:09
what we’re truly looking for or what is
82:11
truly available right whether we realize
82:14
it or not so it’s saying what should you
82:18
be looking for and in a way and even
82:22
that in the teaching should and looking
82:25
I described as problems so then it says
82:29
the answer is what is available in other
82:34
words we frame in this way what will we
82:37
have after enlightenment that we didn’t
82:40
have before and the answer is nothing
82:46
except for the end of suffering peace of
82:52
mind so if someone is seeking
82:55
enlightenment in practical terms they’re
82:58
seeking peace of mind
83:02
that’s what enlightenment will give you
83:07
and maybe that’s my point before
83:10
enlightenment you don’t know what you’re
83:12
looking for so the answer will be always
83:14
wrong that’s right that’s why um when I
83:18
said answer that question for yourself
83:21
based on a real recognition that this is
83:27
a valid question actually if I’m going
83:29
to be seeking if I’m a seeker if life
83:32
has forced me to be a seeker I can’t
83:33
just quit seeking at the moment I
83:35
understand this part of the problem but
83:38
it doesn’t stop so if I’m a seeker
83:43
doesn’t it make sense for me to at least
83:44
be clear on what I’m really seeking in
83:47
practical terms because we don’t have it
83:49
we can’t answer it that way we can’t
83:51
answer it really accurately and so
83:57
that’s why it’s suggested okay the
83:59
suggested answer is we’re looking for
84:01
happiness and happiness is simply peace
84:05
of mind which is the end of suffering so
84:08
if you can acknowledge I’m looking for
84:12
happiness then what you can have direct
84:17
experience of is one’s unhappiness so it
84:20
makes sense if I say yes I’m actually
84:22
looking just I
84:23
just want to be happy in life that’s all
84:26
I’m looking for selfish it might sound
84:29
but practically speaking
84:31
Who am I kidding I just want to be happy
84:33
and so if we come to that conclusion now
84:37
it’s okay but don’t um don’t come up
84:41
with a preconception of what happy is
84:44
hmm but you do know you say well
84:47
actually why I don’t I don’t need to
84:49
complicate everything and I did it I
84:52
just want to be happy so we can sort of
84:56
intuitively we can we can hold that not
85:01
as necessarily as an absolute truth but
85:04
there’s something that I say okay I’m
85:05
happy to run with this as an exploration
85:07
for a bit and then we can start saying
85:10
well if you’re looking for a half and
85:11
for happy and you don’t we don’t know
85:13
what happy is because we don’t have it
85:15
let’s look at what unhappy is all right
85:19
so in those moments when you can be
85:21
certain you can put your hand on your
85:23
heart and say in this moment I’m not
85:26
happy
85:27
that’s when we can start to see
85:31
something that’s very useful for us to
85:34
see we can start to see the unhappiness
85:35
and then if the the suggestion in the
85:39
teaching because the teaching is sort of
85:41
putting forward pointers which stem from
85:44
a place of further insight than what is
85:49
let’s say generally available though the
85:52
teaching says don’t believe anything I
85:54
say write whatever I say is a concept
85:56
but the concepts can be very useful to
85:59
further a contemplation and to further
86:02
an investigation the suggestion is the
86:06
happiness is a happiness through peace
86:09
of mind and peace of mind is simply the
86:12
absence of unhappiness so then it
86:17
becomes even more pertinent for us to
86:19
look not to resist but just to become
86:22
interested and to see the unhappiness
86:25
more clearing so this is where the
86:33
question
86:34
can stop being as problematic as it
86:37
first sounds because the question is
86:40
suggesting that we’re looking for peace
86:43
of mind which is the end of suffering
86:44
and then the suffering is described as a
86:48
seeking for something that you don’t
86:50
have now with the belief that until you
86:54
get it there is a problem that’s
86:59
essentially one of the descriptions of
87:02
the forms of suffering seeking as if you
87:06
are the doer that can make it happen
87:09
that is another of the forms of
87:12
suffering so once those descriptions
87:14
have been delivered and received by the
87:16
person the same system that was
87:20
continually functioning in a way that
87:22
creates suffering hopefully has enough
87:29
new equipment to not add to the
87:34
suffering but to actually start cutting
87:37
it off so I truly believe that if we
87:40
speak to the working mind and one of the
87:44
things I have said many times over the
87:47
last two weeks is whatever is said is a
87:49
description and not a prescription the
87:54
it’s that that’s included in the
87:56
teaching because it’s known that even
87:59
though whatever is said so if you go
88:01
back and listen to the the teachings
88:03
you’ll start to realize wow a whole lot
88:06
of concepts are put forward happiness
88:09
for the human being is peace of mind
88:10
concept not a prescription just a
88:13
description peace of mind is the end of
88:15
suffering description suffering arises
88:18
in the form of guilt blame pride worry
88:20
expectation concept blame or guilt is an
88:24
attitude towards what happens in the
88:26
flow of life that includes the attitude
88:29
that you are a separate independent doer
88:31
that should have and could have done it
88:33
differently and because what you did
88:36
that you could have and should have done
88:37
differently delivered pain to me which
88:39
is an attack on Who I am I hate you so
88:44
that’s a description
88:46
the teaching understands that the
88:51
thinking mind that is still in place the
88:53
doer that is is still in place is going
88:56
to take those descriptions and all of
89:00
the descriptions that describe something
89:03
optimal are going to become objectives
89:07
are going to become or then be taken as
89:11
prescriptions you’re telling me that I
89:14
should stop suffering that’s the error
89:17
of the thinking mind not the error of
89:19
the teaching once but that error of the
89:24
thinking mind isn’t I’m not saying it’s
89:25
the error of a doer over there I’m
89:28
saying that’s just the error of a
89:29
programming so understanding that that
89:32
programming is going to hear that as a
89:36
prescription I also understand that if I
89:38
make a statement about someone’s
89:41
functioning like you know to be honest
89:44
you’re not understanding the point I
89:49
understand that that’s going to be taken
89:51
by the thinking mind as a criticism
89:54
right I don’t mean it as a criticism I
89:57
mean it as a description that you know
90:01
objectively speaking you don’t have a
90:05
clue about what the teaching is actually
90:09
saying right so even if I say you
90:11
haven’t even come you know five percent
90:14
into understanding the teaching and I
90:17
know that the thinking mind is gonna be
90:20
like firing off at this point it’s like
90:22
what are you saying about me the doer
90:25
how dare you attack me like this and my
90:31
attitude and where it’s coming from
90:34
it doesn’t see the person as the doer
90:37
that is failing it’s just seeing make it
90:39
mechanisms and it’s like a boss saying
90:42
to a worker with having no hatred or
90:46
resentment towards the work they I’m
90:48
afraid you’re just not suitable for this
90:50
position this position needs you to be
90:52
able to lift fifteen kilo boxes and you
90:56
can’t lift a four kilo box
90:58
now the doer inside that person might
91:02
take it extremely personally whereas
91:04
actually it’s just an objective
91:06
description of the circumstance as it is
91:08
so that’s why the whole framework is
91:13
delivered in such a way that hopefully
91:15
these inevitabilities one get caught out
91:21
by ourself because the description is
91:24
that when the thinking mind grabs hold
91:27
of the concepts it’s just going to
91:30
create more suffering and more and
91:32
suffering is described as an
91:34
uncomfortableness with oneself and so if
91:36
we register if the awareness and the
91:38
working mind registers is uncomfortable
91:40
in this one with oneself as a result of
91:42
the seeking then an inquiry can go into
91:47
why am I why is this uncomfortableness
91:50
there and what will inevitably find is
91:52
we’ll find some expectation in place of
91:57
what needs to be delivered some movement
91:59
that is trying very hard to make it
92:02
happen to to achieve it and when we see
92:06
that is that because hopefully the
92:07
system has been also equipped with the
92:10
fact actually what I’m looking for is
92:12
just the end of suffering the end of the
92:15
movement of doer ship and attachment to
92:16
I’m just looking for peace in that
92:18
moment stopping can happen and why does
92:25
the stopping happen and what is the
92:28
stopping the stopping is actually
92:29
dropping back into your being and
92:31
realizing I am I sure I don’t need to go
92:36
anywhere in in this moment of realizing
92:40
I am any belief of I’m not gets cut off
92:47
before the times we’re running around
92:51
and I’m not and I need this
92:53
that’s the uncomfortableness and if the
92:55
system has been equipped if the working
92:58
mind has been equipped even with the
93:00
simple description that suffering is
93:02
uncomfortableness with oneself now once
93:05
that’s registered and we inquire into
93:06
what is creating the suffering what
93:08
movement is
93:09
we need to have the the the working mind
93:14
needs to be equipped though with the
93:15
descriptions to see Here I am I’m just
93:18
I’ve spent the last three days trying to
93:22
bring an end to the suffering I’ve been
93:26
seeking desperately and in that moment
93:30
is and what’s revealed is oh it’s there
93:38
isn’t any problem other than the
93:41
thinking mind doing its stuff
93:49
so this returning back to being becomes
93:55
automatic as the the obstacle gets seen
94:03
and so hopefully the framework is robust
94:12
enough to overcome the problem of
94:18
delivering teaching in the form of very
94:24
specific logical concept and
94:31
unfortunately my reiteration is that if
94:36
someone isn’t ready in a way to hear the
94:41
concepts and receive them as
94:44
descriptions right not ready from the
94:49
outset because as I said we can hear
94:52
them the thinking mind can grab hold of
94:54
them and then the concepts in time will
94:57
actually prevent that from happening but
94:59
if it doesn’t happen if they keep being
95:01
heard and related to from the thinking
95:06
mind and the working mind really isn’t
95:07
actually being equipped because the
95:11
thinking mind is is is hearing them and
95:14
that’s all then
95:17
the truth is that that body mind
95:22
organism is designed such that a
95:27
different teaching would be more
95:29
appropriate for it I really don’t think
95:33
that’s the case for you much less than
95:36
most others actually because your
95:38
intellect is is one of your faculties
95:46
that you use more than maybe some people
95:50
in a positive way in a way where the
95:56
intellect is applied as part of your job
96:00
and it’s not it needs to be objective
96:03
intellect intellect that doesn’t just
96:08
believe things an intellect that uses
96:11
critical thinking and so that type of
96:15
intellect that a lot of people haven’t
96:20
had developed because their life
96:22
situation hasn’t required them to to use
96:27
critical thinking you know they don’t
96:29
get in trouble when they don’t use
96:32
critical thinking whereas in certain
96:33
jobs you can’t not use critical thinking
96:36
you you fail as as a practitioner in
96:39
that field so if life is the developed
96:44
critical thinking and then you get a
96:47
teaching that relies to some extent on
96:50
critical thinking eventually coming in
96:54
then it’s it’s very powerful but if it’s
96:58
not if their faculty isn’t there for
97:00
someone and if the teaching doesn’t
97:01
develop it which it can because the
97:04
teaching is also designed to develop
97:06
critical thinking it says whatever is
97:08
put forward is a concept not the truth
97:12
that that is a concept that requires us
97:15
to to use critical thinking to
97:20
understand what it means it means a
97:22
concept is only ever a descriptor of
97:25
that which is so don’t mistake the
97:29
concept
97:30
the thing itself don’t mistake the
97:32
finger pointing to the moon now you know
97:35
in this teaching it it says that which
97:39
is a teaching pointer that we’ve all
97:41
heard before don’t mistake the map for
97:44
the terrain it puts it forward in a way
97:47
that can be more powerful if it’s
97:52
understood whatever is said is a concept
97:54
not the truth however the concepts
97:58
shouldn’t be discarded because then of
98:00
the truth the concepts are extremely
98:03
valuable as pointers especially because
98:08
they there are many sub concepts that
98:10
all fit together to create a fairly
98:13
robust conceptual framework that has
98:18
been designed to make sure that all of
98:22
the errors eventually get caught
98:39
what are these five and seven fingers I
98:42
mean because um is a microphone on yeah
98:48
the guilt the blame the pride so the
98:53
five forms of suffering guilt blame
98:57
pride worry and anxiety expectation and
99:01
attachment to outcomes there that’s a
99:06
description of the 5 manifestations of
99:12
suffering so what that essentially
99:16
saying that all forms of human suffering
99:19
fit under those headings so and that’s
99:25
under guilt a expectation and attachment
99:31
to outcome are interconnected you have
99:33
an expectation of how things should be
99:35
and then when they don’t turn out that
99:38
way there is an attitudinal and
99:40
resistance which we which in this
99:43
teaching is called the attachment to
99:45
outcome so expectation is expectation is
99:50
in a way different to the feeling when
99:54
the outcome isn’t delivered so that’s
99:57
what attachment to outcome is the
100:00
resistance to an outcome that we don’t
100:04
want arising expectation can exist in
100:10
the form of continually imagining and
100:13
thinking about the future so that
100:16
thinking about so it’s essentially the
100:19
expectation in in movement disturbs the
100:24
present moment it disturbs us enjoying
100:29
what’s here now it prevents the mind
100:32
from being quiet and so when these the
100:36
belief in doosh of an attachment to
100:38
outcome is in play what we find is we’re
100:40
continually looking back at the past
100:42
feeling shame or blame regret and if
100:48
we’re not looking back at the past we’re
100:50
looking into the future
100:52
with our idea of you know when this
100:55
happens when my investment portfolio
100:58
doubles then everything will be okay and
101:02
if we’re continually thinking about that
101:05
which is different to doing practical
101:07
thinking about the future because if you
101:10
do need to make some investments your
101:15
your investment advisor have said that
101:17
you need to re weight your things can
101:19
you fill out this form then you look at
101:21
it and you say okay I want to have 15%
101:23
in speculative I want 10% in fixed
101:27
deposits this in international funds
101:29
blah blah blah that’s it is a it is to
101:34
some extent linked to the future but
101:36
you’re thinking about it in the moment
101:39
when there’s a practical task to be done
101:41
and then once that task is done and
101:43
you’ve handed it in you know that the
101:45
investment manager is going to rewrite
101:47
your investments according to that and
101:49
the outcome is going to be whatever it’s
101:51
going to be you’re not in control of
101:53
that so then you don’t have to
101:54
continually be thinking about what is
101:58
going to happen in the future and when
102:02
the circumstance requires a practical
102:06
thought about that topic again then you
102:09
can think about it and put it into
102:11
action what we find that the expectation
102:14
is we’re thinking about the same thing
102:15
over and over and over and over and over
102:18
again and not actually having any
102:23
practical tasks to put in place at that
102:28
point in time so it’s the same one we
102:30
can have thoughts about fixing world
102:33
poverty and how the politicians are not
102:36
doing their job and all that what good
102:39
does that thinking um do when it doesn’t
102:43
lead to an action so sure if you’re
102:45
going to think about world poverty and
102:47
it gets you to make a donation or to
102:50
volunteer your time then that’s good
102:52
you’re thinking about it and leading to
102:54
an action if you find that you’re
102:57
thinking about it and you never act and
102:59
putting a post up on Facebook great
103:02
isn’t acting
103:05
so then you can realize that actually
103:08
this is psychological thinking about the
103:11
future that isn’t leading to any direct
103:16
action that can influence the future and
103:18
when you feel into it you find that it’s
103:21
all an uncomfortableness with the way
103:23
life is right now so by all means do
103:27
what you can to improve a situation
103:29
that’s not what acceptance means
103:32
acceptance doesn’t mean not doing
103:34
something to improve the situation it
103:36
means do what you can in the moment but
103:38
having done what you can sit back and
103:41
see what life delivers with no regrets
103:46
in the past no expectations in the
103:48
future and especially no complaints in
103:51
the present moment that doesn’t mean you
103:54
don’t complain to the waiter when he
103:55
brings the wrong meal that complaint is
103:58
a practical complaint the complaint in
104:01
your head that goes on for two hours
104:04
after you’ve left the restaurant
104:07
pointless and actually the complaint to
104:13
the waiter to me is only there to get a
104:18
new meal or to get the meal corrected
104:21
not to UM blame not a complaint that is
104:26
there simply to blame it’s a practical
104:29
complaint where you say with love if you
104:32
either put it that way
104:32
right love simply means the absence of
104:35
hatred towards the waiter for the fact
104:37
that an action has happened through him
104:40
that has delivered pain to you so they
104:42
can be anger biological reaction of
104:45
anger and then you call the waiter over
104:48
and say you know I ordered omelette and
104:51
this doesn’t look like honor and you
104:55
might end up getting your omelette
105:14
so we’ve spoken a few times about this
105:16
like awareness perspective and that it’s
105:20
not necessary to have that perspective
105:24
and a continuing basis and that’s not
105:27
really what is the end result it’s more
105:31
of this personal perspective that is
105:35
more continuous and suffering not
105:38
arising in a personal perspective do you
105:40
want to speak about that yes what it
105:44
means is that what we’re looking for is
105:46
peace of mind not a shift in perspective
105:49
although that shift in perspective can
105:51
be significant in bringing about peace
105:55
of mind because from that perspective
105:56
life can be seen very differently and
106:00
experienced differently to how it was
106:02
before
106:02
and so in non-duality in particular as
106:07
one of the many different paths but not
106:10
all forms of non-duality but in I think
106:13
in in a portion of non-duality let’s say
106:15
50 percent or 80 percent of non dual
106:19
teachings the emphasis is on bringing
106:21
about a significant shift an awakening
106:27
you could say into the core of what what
106:30
we are and then from that point the
106:35
beliefs in personal doership and
106:37
attachment hopefully are addressed and
106:39
start to dissolve if they don’t we find
106:42
ourselves in a continuous fight of
106:45
resting and being and then getting
106:47
dragged out into involvement because the
106:50
root of the doer ship hasn’t been
106:53
addressed and if we’re not given a
106:56
concept that actually describes it in
106:59
practical terms we may not realize what
107:04
is at the core of that which drags us
107:07
out of being so then we have this really
107:10
tiring movement of continually coming
107:14
back into witnessing thinking the
107:16
witnessing is the enlightened state and
107:22
when the
107:25
root of the problem is dissolved aided
107:28
sometimes or often we could say by this
107:31
witnessing perspective
107:34
well aided by the witnessing perspective
107:38
and the introduction of a realization of
107:42
what the problem is in practical terms
107:43
where whether it’s delivered whether
107:45
that is delivered through a teaching or
107:48
just in being we start to see this for
107:52
ourselves although that can take much
107:54
longer
107:54
then when it’s you know handed to us in
107:57
a handle on a plate as a conceptual
108:00
description um once the root is
108:05
dissolved then that state tends to fade
108:11
away why because the process isn’t about
108:18
a shifting state the shifting state is a
108:21
phase along the way that can be very
108:25
beneficial and why it seems like it’s
108:31
about the state is because once when the
108:33
suffering is there and we’ve become
108:36
familiar with this other gear this other
108:39
position and it starts to become a
108:42
movement that happens almost at will um
108:46
what happens is the suffering arises
108:49
there’s a remembering a realization and
108:51
we drop back into this other place of
108:53
witnessing and things become more
108:56
peaceful and so for a while there is
109:00
this definite contrast between suffering
109:03
and this state where the suffering is
109:08
absent and it is this movement which
109:11
seems like I’m dropping into this other
109:15
way of relating but that’s relevant
109:18
because the suffering is arising if the
109:22
suffering wasn’t arising you wouldn’t
109:25
need to drop out of suffering so in a
109:29
sense this way of being it’s it’s almost
109:33
like a suspension is that there’s a
109:35
certain degree of suspension
109:37
in being where certain faculties of of
109:46
thinking get shut down and unfortunately
109:53
it’s not only the faculties of thinking
109:56
that are problematic that gets shut down
109:58
there is a sort of a suspension of a
110:02
broader form of cognition our first that
110:07
doesn’t seem like a problem because
110:08
there’s that relief of dropping into
110:11
being and then no suffering at some
110:14
point there is a sense that I this is
110:16
not where I live life from and until we
110:21
start being able to acknowledge the body
110:24
and that I am the person and that I have
110:28
to continue living life um and as that
110:33
starts to happen because the
110:38
understanding has has sunk in deeply and
110:42
the and the dynamics of do ership has
110:45
dissolved as a result of this movement
110:47
of coming back into being then we can
110:51
find ourselves being while the body is
110:53
functioning while thinking of the
110:56
working mind practical thinking is still
110:58
happening and so then the being becomes
111:02
a much more effortless experience and
111:08
daily living continues and as that
111:11
integration continues we find that even
111:15
the sense of being can become much less
111:20
pronounced much less in the foreground
111:23
so much so that it dissolves into what
111:26
we call the background where it might
111:28
not even be felt anymore
111:31
and if we don’t if it hasn’t been
111:34
phrased properly we might think oh that
111:36
sounds terrible I’ve lost it except if
111:41
we’re then given a concept that says
111:44
actually you know that the witnessing is
111:46
happening even if you can’t feel
111:49
witnessing
111:50
a sort of palpable state you know it’s
111:53
happening because the suffering isn’t
111:54
arising but suffering when circumstance
111:58
takes place and then you can find
112:01
yourself being the human being without
112:03
being in this sort of sense of a
112:06
separate being in the consciousness that
112:12
is separate now or witnessing even um
112:16
and it becomes more evident that the
112:20
process in its integrated form is a
112:24
process where you actually come back to
112:26
living as a human being
112:28
feeling like a human being in a world
112:31
doing whatever you need to do in each
112:33
moment and simply finding that the
112:37
arising of suffering doesn’t happen
112:39
because the beliefs in doership and
112:41
attachment to outcome have been undone
112:43
and you can look back on your process it
112:46
was my process and I see are that
112:48
witnessing phase that dropping into
112:51
being over and over again was a very
112:53
significant phase and yet we see oh but
112:59
it isn’t what I was really looking for
113:01
it was part of appreciation of the core
113:06
of the human being because in that phase
113:08
that consciousness and being become much
113:11
more pronounced and recognized and then
113:13
once it’s known once it’s like knowing
113:15
your name you don’t have to keep
113:17
remembering it once it’s become known it
113:20
fades away and yet fades away such that
113:25
you are still intimately connected to it
113:27
let’s put it that way and the suffering
113:30
doesn’t arise
113:37
so it’s not to say that in a way the two
113:44
are connected very much because the
113:46
piece meaning the end of suffering
113:49
ultimately doesn’t the suffering doesn’t
113:52
arise when we continue living as a human
113:55
being and we know that at our core what
113:58
I am is untouched by the circumstance
114:00
which means pain is delivered
114:02
I feel the biological pain I react
114:05
biologically to it right this still is a
114:07
biological reaction and yet the deep
114:11
knowing is and this hasn’t you know this
114:13
has been happening my whole life and who
114:15
cares
114:15
you know like in this moment the fact
114:17
that stuff went wrong in the past I I
114:20
don’t even think we don’t think who
114:22
cares like Here I am
114:23
I am now what what has the past and what
114:27
someone did to me what’s got to do with
114:29
anything
114:30
um and so that this dissolving of do
114:34
ership an attachment to outcome makes
114:36
that not just theoretical it’s like
114:38
practically you realize you find that an
114:41
attachment to what happened in the past
114:43
isn’t there so you’ve like a clean slate
114:47
um and that’s the simple manifestation
114:55
of the fact that the the beliefs have
114:57
been dissolved which is why when
115:01
something happens in the present it’s
115:04
understood yes someone’s going to hurt
115:05
me someone’s going to lie to me
115:07
someone’s been steal from me this is
115:08
life happening fine I’d like not it’s
115:11
not fine according to my biological
115:12
preferences it’s pain according to my
115:15
biological preferences but I know deep
115:18
down intuitively without having to drop
115:20
into any place of being or without that
115:23
it hasn’t touched me at Michael