02-04-2019 Roger Castillo – changing states of the personal consciousness experience

  • Holger 

 

Transcript

00:00
for your knowledge not that that should
00:01
change too much
00:20
so I’m given that everyone here is
00:25
familiar with the teachings there’s an
00:28
opportunity for us not to go through the
00:33
main framework of the teaching and get
00:37
into any nuances or particular questions
00:42
that anyone has I tend to think that
00:47
that is a way of elaborating on the main
00:52
points of the teaching and the teaching
00:54
when it’s elaborated on has a whole lot
00:57
of subsections so if someone has a
01:04
confusion with a particular part of the
01:09
conceptual framework maybe you know
01:13
doesn’t understand the difference
01:15
between a biological reaction and a
01:17
psychological reaction for example then
01:20
that would be the ideal sort of question
01:24
and if not we can either just sit here
01:28
quietly or I probably will make what my
01:32
way into a discussion about something
01:34
anyway
02:09
it is my experience that presence or
02:13
abidance as I am pretty much is very
02:17
effective in the sense of this one
02:22
attachment to outcomes that you
02:24
mentioned because when the sense of I am
02:26
is present there is completeness in the
02:30
moment and automatically the attachment
02:34
to outcomes is missing and so would you
02:37
say that abidance in I am also takes
02:40
care of the other if you could call the
02:44
issue of doership as well in itself or
02:46
is there a separate investigation that
02:48
is essential for that the investigation
02:52
of there is an investigation that allows
02:56
us to see that we aren’t the doer not
03:00
only the investigation the the
03:03
contemplation I guess around the fact
03:05
that any action that happens as a result
03:10
of our genes and up-to-date-conditioning
03:11
and that it doesn’t take a great amount
03:19
of looking to know to note that we
03:23
weren’t in condition control of our
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genes and we weren’t in control and
03:27
aren’t in control of how life brings in
03:31
new conditioning moment after moment so
03:34
that’s one part of the exploration the
03:42
suggestion that Ramesh would put forward
03:45
is that if someone isn’t convinced that
03:50
they’re not the doer that they can carry
03:56
out what he would call personal
03:58
investigation of your own and he would
04:01
say that at the end of the day or
04:05
whenever you have 10 or 15 minutes put
04:08
that 10 or 15 minutes aside and he said
04:12
you don’t need to sit in any special
04:14
position if you want to have your cup of
04:16
tea or a sherry it was what he used to
04:18
say
04:19
or a beer then have that with you and
04:23
ask yourself this question or pick an
04:27
event that happened during the day that
04:31
you are convinced was your doing is it
04:35
the other events that you’re not so
04:37
convinced about don’t worry about those
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but pick the one happening or action in
04:42
the day that you are convinced that was
04:44
my doing and then investigate that and
04:49
investigated along the lines of what is
04:53
suggested here that an action happens
04:56
because we see something here something
05:00
smells something tastes something touch
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something and we see here taste touch
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smell something according to the
05:09
environment or the situation we find
05:11
ourselves in and if we come to see that
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the situation is not something that I
05:17
created but a bird could fly past on the
05:22
horizon or fly past the window and
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that’s part of the situation the
05:28
circumstance and we didn’t create that
05:31
it happened and a result of the
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circumstance happening the way it
05:35
happens we see smell taste touch hear
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something and then there is a subsequent
05:44
reaction that happens the that we can
05:48
call the biological reaction in the
05:51
moment which is a result of seeing
05:54
smelling tasting touching etc a thought
05:58
might arise
05:59
what an interesting bird I’ve never seen
06:02
a bird like that and that thought is
06:06
what we relate to as my thought but as
06:11
we start investigating these actions
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which were convinced are my actions and
06:17
investigating it following these little
06:19
hints we start to see that actually the
06:21
thought happened because of my
06:24
particular makeup my genes and
06:26
up-to-date-conditioning that I wasn’t in
06:28
control of and that the circumstance I
06:30
was in which forced me to
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see hear taste etc something and then a
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particular thought arises not a thought
06:40
that I’m in control of but a thought
06:43
that happens according to these
06:46
circumstances in these situations these
06:48
variables that are not my doing and then
06:53
as a result of that thought happening a
06:55
subsequent action might happen and that
06:59
action similarly is based on the genes
07:03
and up-to-date-conditioning and the risk
07:05
and the response to the thought which
07:07
was a response to the circumstance and
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so if we investigate along these lines a
07:13
really simple investigation we’ll find
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time and time again that action that we
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were convinced was my action turns out
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to be a happening that is much more
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impersonal than we originally thought
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and if we do this personal investigation
07:32
of our own for 30 days in a row that’s
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saying and each time we conclude not my
07:41
action but rather a happening an action
07:45
arising a thought arising in a body mind
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organism as a result of the circumstance
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as a result of something that was seen
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smell tasted touched or heard then that
07:59
becomes our understanding of the
08:04
principle of non doer ship not just as a
08:06
conceptual idea but it’s something that
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we have investigated now abiding in I am
08:13
in the same way as it in the moment
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satisfies the or brings about an end to
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the attachment to outcomes because of a
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completeness we’ll also find that the if
08:29
we can drop into this place of beingness
08:31
it also deals with the doer ship however
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even with the case of attachment to
08:40
outcomes if we drop into I am that
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doesn’t mean that
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when a certain outcome happens that is
08:49
not in line with our preferences we
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don’t get pulled out of it so there is
08:55
the sense of it cutting off attachment
08:58
to outcomes when we drop in there but
09:00
what we find is we tend to get pulled
09:02
out of this place of being regularly and
09:07
my proposition is that we get pulled out
09:10
of the place of being because the roots
09:13
of doership and attachment to outcome
09:15
haven’t been uprooted yet and so there’s
09:20
a great value in the movement of
09:23
dropping into being and witnessing but
09:27
it’s not on its own going to uproot the
09:32
deeply ingrained beliefs of doership and
09:34
attachment to outcome but if we discard
09:38
that and say oh well that’s on its own
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isn’t going to uproot the deeply
09:43
ingrained beliefs of doer ship an
09:45
attachment to outcome so I won’t worry
09:48
about that and what will uproot the
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beliefs in doing and I say well if you
09:52
start investigating and seeing the
09:54
dynamics that’s an important part but on
09:57
on its own that’s not enough either so
10:02
hopefully a combination of these
10:06
contemplations and these investigations
10:09
plus the alternate movement at other
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times of dropping into being where we
10:15
get firsthand confirmation that I don’t
10:20
need anything more than I have in order
10:22
to be complete that’s not to say that I
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can’t get something I don’t have that
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will add value on another level on the
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level of pleasure and pain let’s say so
10:33
this doesn’t mean that we stop
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functioning biologically to improve
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situations where we might be able to but
10:40
we get this firsthand comfort for
10:42
confirmation I forgot that really in the
10:48
absence of all of this thinking about
10:50
what I need in order to be complete I
10:54
forgot Here I am complete
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so that becomes our first hand
11:00
confirmation of the notion that what we
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are at our core is already complete and
11:05
at peace and similarly resting in being
11:15
and witnessing life as a happening also
11:19
shows us not only that we are complete
11:24
in that moment but it shows us that
11:25
everything is a happening that is very
11:27
automatic because from that place of
11:29
just being even thoughts arising get
11:34
seen as a thought arising out of nothing
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you could say there was no thought
11:39
before and then a thought arises and
11:43
from that perspective it’s clear I
11:46
didn’t create the thought but it
11:49
happened and then the movement of the
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body towards a glass of water can be
11:55
understood that there was an urge arose
11:59
instead of maybe a thought so a
12:02
biological urge of thirst arose and did
12:06
I create that biological urge of thirst
12:09
no it happened because the body hasn’t
12:12
had enough liquids and so then the body
12:16
gives a signal so that thirst arises and
12:20
then a thought might follow the thirst
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oh I haven’t had a drink for quite a
12:24
while and as a result of the urge and
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the thought we might look around to see
12:30
if there’s a glass of water or we might
12:34
get up to walk to the kitchen or raise a
12:38
hand to signal a waiter to come over and
12:43
all of these things tend to continue to
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happen when we’re resting in our being
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and get witnessed as a happening so
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there is a benefit on both fronts of
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dropping into being but on both fronts I
13:01
don’t think dropping into being is the
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only undoing factor yeah I mean in the
13:07
sense that if there is sufficient
13:08
abidance in I am
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and as you say that suffering arises and
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we get dragged out then probably even in
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the moment that we do not feel that
13:16
sense anymore
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they still an intuition you know that
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it’s there and that what is happening
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here is in contrast to that intuition
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which we have that deep with so maybe
13:27
that can help you know drop back there
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yes and maybe
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lessen the investigative may be the time
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it takes to drop back into I am would
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you say that yes
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so as the understanding goes deeper and
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deeper and the understanding in this
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teaching is said to be at first an
13:50
intellectual understanding which simply
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means the concept is put forward and
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someone says I understand what you’re
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saying intellectually but I don’t know
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this to be accurate
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from my own experience let me go and
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think about it let me see if I can
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observe it for myself in daily living
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and as we observe it for ourself in
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daily living
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meaning observe what the concept
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describes the understanding then starts
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going deeper and deeper a move from an
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intellectual understanding to a knowing
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based on our own experience as that
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understanding gets deeper and deeper
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which in so that investigation includes
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both the feedback that we get when we
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drop into being and also the insights
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and the contemplative realizations that
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we get so a combination of of both the
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investigation and the dropping into
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being as a result of our understanding
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deepening and as the understanding goes
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deeper and deeper the effect is that it
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cuts off suffering quicker and quicker
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so the horizontal extension of suffering
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in time as the understanding goes deeper
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it might start cutting it off at a count
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of ten instead of twenty and then the
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understanding goes deeper still and we
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find it gets cut off at a count of five
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and then gets cut off at a count of
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three a count of one and when the
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understanding is total what we find is
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that the suffering no longer arises
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meaning that the understanding has
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become total has sunk deep enough into
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the body that it has uprooted all of the
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misunderstanding and therefore the
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suffering no longer has a basis on which
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to arise so we find that we abide in I
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am more consistently simply because the
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amount of suffering and its duration is
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getting less and less and less
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but this abiding in I am also and
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witnessing I’d like to point out that at
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first especially when there is a
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contrast between suffering and what we
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can feel as a dropping into being when
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that contrast is there there is a strong
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sense of the beingness and I am this and
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maybe even a strong qualitative sense of
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witnessing and as the suffering gets
16:41
less and less we find that the sense of
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dropping into being isn’t there
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primarily because we’re already there
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and
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so the important point I’m trying to
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make here is that the actual sense of
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witnessing the sense of being can fade
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away and then we might think that oh
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I’ve lost a knowing of myself because I
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no longer um since this beingness is
17:20
something palpable or I don’t feel a
17:24
witnessing happening in the way I did
17:28
earlier on in the process where the
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witnessing was quite palpable in itself
17:35
where there was a sense of being this
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formless awareness often located outside
17:39
of the body or or somewhat outside of
17:44
the body and we might think that because
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that palpable sense has fallen away that
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the process is regressing that we’ve
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lost something that the process had
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earlier delivered but if we become clear
18:00
that really all of those shifts are just
18:02
there to bring in peace of mind and that
18:05
what we’re looking for is not really the
18:07
shift not really the change in state
18:12
we’re not really looking for um feeling
18:17
the IMS or feeling the witnessing what
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we’re looking for is the product of that
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or the result of that the consequence of
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that which is the end of suffering or
18:30
peace of mind and if we lose sight of
18:33
that we might think that something’s
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gone wrong because I don’t feel that
18:37
anymore if we intellectually grasp the
18:44
notion that are actually witnessing
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simply means the end of involvement in
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the pleasure or pain the end of
18:52
involvement in suffering if it arises
18:56
and so then if we can’t feel the
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witnessing and yet we see that there is
19:03
no psychological involvement happening
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when the circumstance is painful anyways
19:09
our witnessing is still happening
19:12
but in a more integrated form where
19:17
there is no involvement and we only know
19:19
that because the suffering isn’t arising
19:21
so then it’s another opportunity for us
19:24
to go past being attached to a
19:28
particular state along the way a
19:32
particular sense of beingness or
19:38
witnessing and so don’t just take my
19:43
word for it so I’ll refer to Ramana and
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he refers to a hums for Ana um a hum is
19:53
I or I am and Verano means the bursting
19:58
forth so the bursting forth of I am
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which is something that happens and it
20:06
can be referred to as part of the
20:09
self-realization process where we become
20:13
aware of the part of us that’s always
20:17
been there the sense of existence the
20:19
sense of ironist and when we first
20:24
become aware of it it can be quite
20:27
palpable and one that why did I not
20:31
notice this before because it must have
20:35
been here because it’s actually the core
20:37
of the human being the core of my
20:41
capacity to actually be aware and feel
20:47
like I am so when it bursts forth it’s a
20:55
very significant part of the process
20:57
it’s part of this realization of the
21:01
self and then he goes on to say that’s
21:04
not enlightenment that – falls away that
21:10
sense of the bursting forth of I am that
21:14
– falls away and we might interpret that
21:19
as being or even that is still some sort
21:23
of identification let’s say or even
21:25
and we think that it falls away to
21:27
reveal an even greater nothingness that
21:30
thing but I would say reconsider the
21:34
meaning of even that falls away –
21:36
meaning we come back to functioning just
21:40
as a ordinary person but now the
21:45
understanding that I am that was aided
21:48
by them very palpable since I am that
21:52
hangs around for long enough at some
21:56
point it can fade away and then we don’t
21:59
lose an understanding that in each
22:02
moment I am and the peace then is there
22:09
all the time without the sense of
22:11
dropping out of suffering into being
22:14
because it becomes our home
22:30
just check check the green light is on
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it’s audible yes okay so one of the
22:40
videos and this is also since you
22:43
mentioned Romana actually mentioned in
22:47
one of your videos that the junction
22:50
point is somewhere in the middle of the
22:52
heart and that i am-ness or whatever is
22:56
somewhere in the middle and Romana also
22:59
used to talk about the right side of the
23:00
heart or something as a matter of fact I
23:02
sent a few males on your website that
23:05
can you little elaborate on that
23:07
maybe you got at you didn’t but I
23:10
actually didn’t get the answers answer
23:12
okay good I’m glad you’re here then
23:14
actually I’ve mentioned then I um for
23:19
the sake of the video because I feel I
23:21
feel bad sometimes getting a direct
23:23
question that is a very valid question
23:28
and so my impulse is to answer it and at
23:32
some point I realize I simply can’t
23:34
answer these all of these questions
23:37
because I have a list of to do’s and
23:39
then I wake up in the morning in this
23:40
they say three questions and if I do
23:42
those and I find that to-do list gets
23:44
longer and longer so I encourage people
23:46
to send the question if it’s um if it’s
23:49
something they really need to ask but to
23:52
understand that sometimes there’ll be an
23:55
answer and sometimes they won’t um and
23:58
when I don’t mention this which I don’t
24:01
think I’ve ever mentioned before I
24:02
understand that someone might feel you
24:05
know that there was a direct question
24:06
and then the email wasn’t responded to
24:09
and you know sometimes even explaining
24:11
all of this takes time so I now come to
24:14
a point where I just don’t reply to the
24:16
email sometimes um and so I figured well
24:19
you know that’s part of the process and
24:21
if someone is taking it personally
24:23
without necessarily considering the
24:26
impersonal nasaw of the fact that I
24:28
simply can’t respond to the emails now I
24:31
figure that’s actually part of how the
24:32
process works
24:33
so now I’ve got to share it with
24:35
everyone who’s who’s watching
24:38
so the fact you here is perfect
24:42
the heart is not really the physical
24:44
heart that’s being referred to and
24:49
that’s why ramen I would refer to it
24:51
just right of center as opposed to the
24:55
physical heart being left of center and
24:57
also in some of his other discussions
25:03
he’d go into it and say well actually
25:05
that’s just for those who need a
25:10
reference to the physical body because
25:12
actually this heart the spiritual heart
25:14
is not part of the physical body but
25:17
part of a subtle body or an energetic
25:21
body still they tend to be sheaths or I
25:25
think the I’ve lost the Sanskrit word
25:31
but the Sanskrit word means Kosh is here
25:35
the different layers and and they sort
25:37
of have a correlation to each other
25:39
they’re not separate they’re they’re all
25:41
linked but anyway the the spiritual
25:44
heart is not something that you’re going
25:46
to feel physically although you can have
25:49
a sense of the energetic center so it
25:53
possibly relates much more to what we
25:56
know as one of the chakra chakras but it
25:59
isn’t even one of the chakras but on
26:03
that same level as the chakra system
26:08
well at the same level of the heart
26:10
chakra you could say but on a different
26:12
Pacha and in this teaching one of the
26:19
concepts is that that says what the
26:22
human being is is the impersonal
26:27
consciousness of source which we won’t
26:30
have access to so in a way that is
26:34
theoretical the impersonal consciousness
26:37
of source but theoretically the
26:40
impersonal consciousness of thought of
26:43
source links to the particular body mind
26:46
organism a vehicle and
26:50
when that happens when there is the
26:52
linking of the impersonal consciousness
26:54
of source to a particular body mind
26:56
organism it then functions through that
26:59
body mind organism as personal
27:01
consciousness and the junction point of
27:08
the impersonal consciousness to the body
27:12
mind organism so sort of like where it
27:14
plugs in to the body and becomes one
27:18
with the body is what we can refer to as
27:21
the spiritual heart and so resting in
27:26
the spiritual heart means we get to know
27:31
the very starting point or the very
27:35
basic of personal consciousness now
27:39
personal consciousness is the experience
27:42
that each of us have in each moment
27:44
meaning a consciousness experience but
27:47
from a very particular perspective the
27:49
particular the perspective of a
27:51
particular body that’s why I call it
27:53
personal
27:54
because it’s not from the perspective of
27:59
everything but rather from the
28:02
perspective of this particular body mind
28:04
organism and some of those experiences
28:10
or at some points during the day the
28:17
experience can take on a very impersonal
28:20
flavor now because it’s taken on an
28:24
impersonal flavor doesn’t mean that now
28:26
we know the impersonal consciousness of
28:28
source so if I use the word impersonal
28:30
consciousness of source linked to a
28:33
particular body mind organism and
28:37
functioning as personal consciousness
28:39
and then the experience changes so that
28:42
it feels quite impersonal we might
28:45
assume that now it’s gone from a
28:46
personal consciousness experience to an
28:48
impersonal consciousness experience
28:50
which isn’t the case while ever we are
28:53
alive in so from the time of birth up to
28:58
the time of physical death according to
29:01
this teaching it will always be a
29:02
personal
29:03
experience even those experiences of
29:08
deep meditation let’s say we’re in the
29:12
experience itself the body is not
29:15
present or any experience of the body no
29:20
thinking that has anything to do with a
29:23
me or a person and no preferences no
29:29
personality so even those experiences
29:34
are still said to be within this
29:37
framework a personal consciousness
29:38
experience but the most impersonal
29:42
version of a personal consciousness
29:45
experience so to the extent that we rest
29:50
in the heart we can become more familiar
29:55
with the core of the human being in its
30:04
undifferentiated form which still to me
30:09
isn’t the impersonal consciousness of
30:12
source but it’s the impersonal
30:16
consciousness of source in its most
30:18
basic form manifest form still had
30:25
repeat that is a personal consciousness
30:29
experience which really means the
30:31
conclusion is that we can never get away
30:33
from a personal consciousness experience
30:35
right and someone might think or but
30:38
that’s the problem the person is the
30:40
problem no the problem is when there is
30:44
a personal consciousness experience with
30:47
the additive of suffering that in itself
30:55
feels uncomfortable now it’s not a
30:56
problem that’s not a problem to creation
30:59
as a whole creation as a whole has
31:01
doesn’t differentiate between good and
31:06
bad and suffering versus peace so from a
31:10
very wide perspective
31:13
suffering being there is not really a
31:16
problem but from the personal experience
31:19
points of view suffering is an
31:21
uncomfortableness with oneself and so if
31:24
that’s there it essentially colors the
31:27
personal consciousness experience with
31:29
an uncomfortableness with oneself now if
31:32
that’s there it’s just part of the
31:34
creation what to do
31:36
that means it’s destiny for in that
31:38
moment the personal consciousness
31:40
experience to be a particular way and we
31:42
don’t create the personal consciousness
31:44
experience it is what is here in each
31:49
moment and it includes the sense of
31:53
there being most most design includes
31:55
the sense of being a body and
31:56
functioning in our world it includes the
32:00
pleasure and the pain of whatever is
32:03
happening in in that moment so the
32:09
problem is not that we are having a
32:11
personal consciousness experience but
32:13
rather that the personal consciousness
32:14
experience includes the different forms
32:18
of suffering the guilt the blame the
32:20
pride the worry the expectation and if
32:23
the personal consciousness experience
32:25
changes somewhat such that those forms
32:29
of suffering is still arising but there
32:31
is a witnessing of them and less
32:34
involvement so the primary involvement
32:37
in the guilt blame pride that’s there
32:40
because that is what guilt blame pride
32:42
worrying expectation is it has
32:44
involvement in it but then the secondary
32:46
involvement where there is involvement
32:48
in the involvement that potentially can
32:51
fall away and so then that means a
32:54
personal consciousness experience where
32:56
suffering is arising but no involvement
32:59
in the involvement and we can have a
33:03
personal consciousness experience where
33:06
the basis on which the suffering has
33:09
been completely annihilated and
33:11
therefore no suffering and therefore no
33:15
need to witness the suffering because
33:16
it’s not there to witness can become
33:19
what the personal consciousness
33:20
experience is and so this movement to
33:24
try and escape the personal conscious
33:26
this experience is really a misnomer in
33:33
my mind what what happens sometimes is
33:41
we have a personal consciousness
33:42
experience that feels very impersonal
33:44
like not even any personality or gender
33:49
or whatever so that can happen but then
33:53
we can also have the personal
33:54
consciousness experience that hair that
33:56
includes preferences and personality and
33:59
that in itself isn’t the problem it’s
34:02
the judgment of the personality the
34:07
judgment of the actions that are
34:10
happening through a particular person
34:13
either the other or oneself that’s an
34:16
extra overlay also part of the personal
34:19
consciousness experience because it’s
34:20
all the personal always a personal
34:22
consciously that’s the component that
34:26
obscures or makes the personal
34:28
consciousness experience one that isn’t
34:31
of peace of mind I wouldn’t suggest we
34:51
ever practice as a practice or trying to
34:54
get something but if we find practicing
34:59
happening which means an effortless
35:01
movement so then if it becomes this
35:04
effortless practice more like a habit
35:08
that happens but it’s a good habit in a
35:12
way so if we find a habit happening then
35:16
we wouldn’t really call it a practice
35:18
but we would see that it is routinely
35:20
happening and that’s the best sort of
35:25
movement that starts so when I’ve spoken
35:27
about this when I put forward the
35:31
description about how the thought I am
35:33
can arise and cut off any of the
35:39
thinking mind that the
35:40
working mind and awareness have become
35:42
aware of in a moment and then when the I
35:48
am thought arises cutter cuts off the
35:50
suffering we can drop into a place of
35:53
being that essentially is all a
35:55
description of what might happen right
35:58
not a prescription of something for you
35:59
to do but it only starts to happen after
36:04
we’ve heard about it and so once we’ve
36:10
heard about it it becomes part of our
36:12
up-to-date-conditioning hopefully not
36:16
part of our up-to-date-conditioning in
36:18
the thinking mind because if it becomes
36:20
part of our up-to-date-conditioning in
36:21
the thinking mind and the thinking mind
36:23
says okay i have to make this happen and
36:25
then it it isn’t an effortless habit but
36:29
rather a discipline that the thinking
36:32
mind is is saying i have to become
36:34
really good at this and in a sense that
36:37
thinking mind being active is the
36:41
complete opposite of what is actually
36:45
being what is being spoken about which
36:50
is arresting without an attitude of
36:53
attachment to outcome and without an
36:55
attitude of personal doer ship trying to
36:59
get that outcome so the practice which
37:05
isn’t really a practice that might
37:06
happen is when we’ve heard that the home
37:10
of consciousness the home of the
37:14
consciousness that is functioning
37:15
through us is actually in the heart and
37:18
not in the head so allowing whenever it
37:26
happens for the consciousness to feel
37:28
like it’s drifting down into the heart
37:30
as if so you can so you can visualize it
37:34
in a way as though the center of
37:36
consciousness which has been dragged up
37:38
into our head and we tend to function
37:41
and see everything out of the head
37:43
primarily it feels like that because the
37:46
thinking is located up here and the most
37:51
prominent sense of sight is coming out
37:53
of the is
37:54
from the eyes so the two of those things
37:57
together tend to drag our sense of
38:01
consciousness up into the head and a
38:05
beingness happens much more when we are
38:11
grounded in the body and feeling the
38:14
body and so part of that dropping into
38:18
the body is allowing the center of
38:20
consciousness to drift down into the
38:24
spiritual heart and that can start to
38:32
happen first just by hearing that that’s
38:34
it’s home it’s been dragged out of its
38:37
home when it is centered in the head and
38:42
so the visualization of it being dragged
38:45
back down sort of by by gravity not
38:47
something you can do you can’t drag it
38:51
back down as your action but just
38:55
stopping and sensing it drifting back to
39:00
its home and it might take weeks I
39:06
remember when this started to happen I I
39:09
felt it over a period of time I felt
39:14
something drifting down and there’s at
39:17
different phases I sort of felt it in
39:20
the throat let’s say on its way down
39:23
from the head to the heart it doesn’t
39:25
necessarily just drop straight down into
39:27
the heart but just hearing that that’s
39:32
the home that’s where in personal
39:34
consciousness links and becomes in its
39:38
initial manifestation I am and then the
39:44
other layers of the person get added to
39:47
it and remember the other layers of the
39:48
person are not a problem to our peace of
39:52
mind except for the final layer which is
39:55
this attitude of judging everything is
39:59
appropriate and inappropriate
40:06
yes and along with the allowing there’s
40:09
this just at the back there along with
40:13
the allowing it to drift down keeping in
40:19
mind that the whole momentary experience
40:24
is our personal consciousness experience
40:27
it’s all that we ever know is this
40:29
present personal consciousness
40:31
experience right now
40:33
that’s essentially what life has always
40:35
in ever will be for us is what is
40:38
happening in this present moment so even
40:40
if we’re forty-five years old at the
40:43
time when we were five years old at our
40:45
birthday party for example that
40:47
experience was happening as the present
40:50
moment personal consciousness experience
40:53
right so having your bowl of jelly and
40:56
it’s coming out of the bowl onto your
40:59
clothes and then the crying because this
41:04
has happened that was the personal
41:06
consciousness experience in that moment
41:08
and so for us to just intellectually
41:12
understand oh actually this is all that
41:14
life ever is is this present moment my
41:17
personal consciousness moment experience
41:18
so let me be aware of this moment in its
41:23
entirety as a singularity as a single
41:27
experience arising in this moment
41:30
meaning the complete visual image as a
41:34
singular as a singularity in a sense as
41:37
though you’re watching a landscape a
41:41
complete Vista so in a way we can step
41:45
back and see a like a big picture in a
41:50
museum we can become very focused on
41:53
objects in the picture that’s valid too
41:56
because they are part of objects in the
41:59
picture and at the same time we can also
42:01
step back and see the whole picture and
42:03
when you’re stepping back seeing the
42:05
whole picture you’re also able to be
42:08
aware of specific objects what has
42:13
tended to happen when we get dragged up
42:15
into the head
42:16
is our attention because of the way that
42:20
the thinking tends to separate
42:23
everything out means that we tend to
42:25
become very focused on whatever the
42:28
object of our thought is so either an
42:31
object in the present moment a single
42:34
object and everything else gets ignored
42:36
or attention goes on to the object of
42:40
the thought object and becomes obsessed
42:43
with that and then everything else is
42:45
almost like it doesn’t exist so we’ve
42:48
lost touch with presence which is the
42:51
presence in the present moment so along
42:56
with this feeling the sense of I am and
43:00
that’s another important fact there is
43:01
the sense of I am is prior to thought
43:04
you don’t need to think I am into
43:09
existence it is it’s always there and so
43:15
we need to feel our I am las’ and so to
43:21
aid with that allowing the vision to the
43:27
gaze to widen and to become aware of a
43:31
broader visual image and also to sense
43:37
like I am NOT sensing through the sense
43:41
organs you can drop the notion that the
43:45
body is the subject and with this wider
43:52
perspective you might get the feeling
43:56
that actually I am sensing the whole
43:59
experience from maybe the chest area you
44:04
could say and it’s not as though the
44:07
experiences outside of the body because
44:10
the fact is that the body is very much
44:13
part of the singular personal
44:16
consciousness experience so then we’re
44:18
eyes are the body is not exclusively the
44:22
subject the body is to some extent it’s
44:28
the vehicle
44:30
through which the consciousness is
44:32
functioning because if you put your hand
44:34
over the eyes then the personal
44:37
consciousness experience changes
44:38
accordingly so on the one hand it is the
44:42
the vehicle through which the personal
44:44
consciousness but it’s also an object
44:46
within the experience and it was I had
45:05
so the question because you know don’t
45:07
have the microphone was when when I had
45:09
that shift happening was it a physical
45:11
experience and to some extent I’d say
45:14
yes physical but it not physical on the
45:17
level of the physical body but you could
45:21
say a sensation or an energetic sense on
45:24
the level of that subtle body where the
45:30
move was actually happening but it’s
45:36
able to be sensed there’s a sense of a
45:39
shift is something that when it’s
45:43
happening is is quite noticeable I’m
45:45
sure it can happen for someone where
45:48
that process isn’t noticed and and so
45:52
then someone might hear this and think
45:54
well this hasn’t happened for me or I
45:57
don’t know what you’re talking about
45:58
like I sense I sense the world this way
46:03
the way you’re talking about but all
46:06
this talk about the process is not
46:09
something I’m familiar with
46:15
so Roger I’m trying to is the microphone
46:18
on if the green light is on it’s on I’m
46:28
trying to triangulate to try and
46:31
recognize this feeling of I am and
46:36
towards that end I’ll throw some
46:38
potentially unrelated questions and then
46:41
if you could if you could answer and
46:44
packagin give me some way to think about
46:46
it so the first is I am I abiding in I
46:51
am where I’m in deep sleep
46:53
second is mindfulness another word for
46:56
abiding in I am third is Vipassana a
47:02
technique to sort of get you there to
47:07
abide in I am mm-hmm
47:10
and the reason I asked the one of the
47:13
things that has always occurred to me is
47:15
what when I asked Lisa questions she’s
47:17
she always wants me to think about the
47:20
bomb on my seat which is again a sense
47:22
of trying to feel your body so I’m
47:24
trying to take all these things together
47:26
to try and figure out when it is I abide
47:31
in I am if I ever do or maybe I just
47:34
need a few mushrooms okay so the the
47:40
funny thing is just like everything
47:42
along the process that this abiding and
47:45
I am happens the recognition of I am or
47:51
I am this beingness happens and even
47:53
though we are told well it’s always
47:56
there the fact is that when the personal
48:01
consciousness experiences constructed a
48:05
certain way when I say constructed
48:09
constructed such that it’s experienced
48:11
exactly the way it’s experienced in each
48:13
moment so at times when there isn’t
48:16
awareness of I am the fact is we can’t
48:18
have awareness of I am in those moments
48:21
because when the awareness of I am
48:25
bursts forth
48:27
essentially it’s a new experience that
48:31
includes that as a sort of quasi object
48:34
includes the sense of I am as an object
48:38
or a feeling that we now feel and in the
48:43
other moments when it wasn’t felt in a
48:47
sense it wasn’t there it was there but
48:52
not in a way that could be felt so this
48:55
if we’re trying to feel it on trying to
48:57
feel it you know we might be trying at
49:01
times when it simply isn’t destined to
49:05
be there but that trying is also part of
49:08
the personal consciousness experience
49:10
and so that means it’s destined for us
49:14
to be trying when you know it isn’t
49:18
going to be experienced so just hearing
49:20
that might bring a relaxation to the
49:23
trying but at the same time an attention
49:26
and interest on the sense of I am
49:30
because life is designed to be a story
49:34
of cause and effect a story of time and
49:37
space attention and interest is one of
49:42
the things that precedes the bursting
49:45
forth of I am so it’s sort of a
49:46
conundrum sort of say well this is
49:49
should I um be interested in it when
49:53
it’s not destined for it to be there or
49:55
should I not be interested in it and it
49:58
comes down to the attitude I I would say
50:01
the attitude with which we are
50:03
interested in it so an attitude of being
50:07
interested but not being too pushy in
50:10
trying to make it happen because we’re
50:13
not the ones that determine the
50:17
momentary experience so let’s answer the
50:22
questions in deep sleep you’re not
50:25
abiding in I am in deep sleep there is
50:29
essentially the absence of the personal
50:32
consciousness experience so the I am is
50:37
the
50:40
first manifestation of the personal
50:42
consciousness experience so when the but
50:47
I still I still am in deep sleep am I
50:50
not well that that’s well the question
50:55
is from your own experience are you in
51:01
deep sleep are you still I am God I hope
51:07
so
51:10
well you clearly don’t cease that’s true
51:16
i conjecture i am rather than i
51:18
experience i yeah that’s right um and so
51:21
when we’re talking about i am which is
51:23
something particular a sense of i am
51:26
that we can know in the manifestation as
51:29
a sense of beingness then it becomes
51:32
useful for us to go away from believing
51:37
something but say like believing while i
51:39
am in deep sleep to realizing exactly
51:42
what you just said well actually i
51:44
conjecture that i am in deep sleep i
51:46
don’t know that i am in deep sleep and
51:50
for the sake of this investigation i
51:53
would say that deep sleep is the absence
51:56
of manifestation and therefore the
52:00
absence of i am this so i would you
52:04
could say consciousness at rest
52:06
consciousness not even aware of itself
52:11
now there’ll be a lot of people that
52:14
would say well so this is quite a could
52:18
be quite controversial and when I went
52:21
to Ramesh I had this discussion sort of
52:28
debated lasted for a long time where
52:30
when Ramesh said that in deep sleep that
52:34
is the absence of presence the absence
52:39
of awareness now because some of the
52:45
teachings that I had been exposed to
52:47
before used awareness as the term for
52:50
the absolute
52:53
when you use the word awareness for the
52:57
term of the absolute we assume well if
53:01
the absolute is awareness then in deep
53:04
sleep
53:05
there must be awareness because the
53:09
absolute is awareness if we change the
53:13
word for the absolute to not be
53:16
awareness let’s say just source then
53:19
that mental presupposition that I don’t
53:24
think is so accurate falls away because
53:26
now we say source in deep sleep no we’re
53:30
not calling it awareness so now we don’t
53:31
we’re not forced to say well in deep
53:33
sleep there is awareness this source but
53:37
at rest so source at rest for me is
53:39
source not even aware of itself and even
53:45
if someone wants to say source is aware
53:48
of itself I’m not going to argue it
53:50
because I don’t know what source
53:52
experiences but what I do know is that
53:54
the personal I am or the sense of I am
53:58
that Roger knows isn’t there in deep
54:02
sleep at best I know the I am in a sleep
54:07
state they’re different to a dream state
54:10
but a sleep state where there is no
54:12
waking state experience no dream state
54:15
experience and a subtle sense of
54:20
presence now that may well be what some
54:28
sages refer to as awareness and deep
54:32
sleep I put deep sleep as a state beyond
54:38
that where even that presence falls away
54:40
but anyway the purpose of this is not to
54:44
get too caught up in in that because
54:47
we’re not looking for happiness in deep
54:48
sleep
54:49
there’s no unhappiness in deep sleep
54:50
right what we’re looking for is
54:52
happiness in the waking state and it
54:58
turns out that connection to our
55:02
beingness
55:03
is really all that’s well is a large
55:06
part of where our happiness in daily
55:09
living comes from that plus the
55:11
dissolution of the false ideas of Who I
55:15
am
55:17
so in deep sleep a my abiding in I am
55:22
the answer is no and hopefully you can
55:25
see why I say that because there is no
55:27
sense of I am at least no awareness from
55:32
the one that wakes up so we often get
55:36
I’ll say this was a lot of people
55:38
watching will be thinking it but I know
55:40
I was in deep sleep because I know I
55:43
slept well and all I’ll say without
55:45
going into it is that spiritual
55:47
teachings will make certain statements
55:49
for a certain purpose that when we apply
55:53
critical thinking we say that’s not a
55:55
proof of anything you know that you
55:57
slept well when you woke when you wake
55:59
up it doesn’t mean that you know you
56:04
were there in deep sleep so there are a
56:08
lot of parts of teachings that just say
56:11
what needs to be said knowing that it is
56:14
useful but if we apply certain critical
56:17
thinking to it we see that those
56:19
statements aren’t necessarily the proofs
56:21
that they put themselves up to be and
56:26
that’s not a criticism of the teaching
56:27
that says that that’s an understanding
56:29
that the teaching understands that it’s
56:31
just useful to say that what was the
56:35
second question is a mindful
56:42
is the second question was is
56:46
mindfulness a Buddhist concept for
56:49
abiding in I am our third question was
56:53
well I’ll get to the third after the
56:55
sale yeah I’m not exactly sure what
56:58
mindfulness refers to whenever I had
57:01
thought of mindfulness I thought of
57:04
abiding in I am because when you are
57:07
abiding in I am you can’t help but being
57:10
being mindful but now that I see it
57:15
being used elsewhere in different terms
57:18
mindfulness doesn’t necessarily mean
57:21
abiding and I am
57:22
it means being aware of things that you
57:26
weren’t necessarily aware of all the
57:28
becoming aware or attentive of things
57:31
that have been pointed out to be that
57:34
are useful to be attentive of which
57:37
really just could mean new conditioning
57:40
that directs your attention onto things
57:44
that you previously weren’t interested
57:50
in now that mindfulness can be very
57:53
useful so the in in a sense when I’m
57:57
talking about putting for the different
57:59
descriptions saying that happiness for
58:01
the human being is peace of mind that is
58:04
essentially bringing about a mindfulness
58:08
to the present moment that can confirm
58:15
that statement the way mindfulness was
58:21
but the way I understand mindfulness is
58:24
to be aware of your existence without
58:28
being lost in thought in in that case
58:33
that is the same as abiding in I am but
58:39
you can you can be mindful of for
58:42
example the taste so mindfulness might
58:47
also direct you to being mindful of the
58:50
taste of the food that you’re eating
58:53
which doesn’t necessarily
58:55
require an abiding in I am it does
58:59
essentially require less thinking to be
59:05
there otherwise the thinking is what
59:06
takes center stage but and so
59:10
mindfulness if it’s mindful of your own
59:13
existence prior to thought that
59:16
essentially is directing the attention
59:18
onto the core of the human being because
59:21
your sense of existence is emanates from
59:27
the core of our our being but why the
59:30
mindfulness of let’s say the taste of
59:33
the food is is particularly also useful
59:38
and linked to this is it brings us to a
59:41
presence with the experience that’s
59:43
actually happening now and it means that
59:47
it takes us out out of the thinking mind
59:51
that is usually obsessed with the what’s
59:53
happened in the past and what’s happened
59:54
in the don’t happen in the future that
59:57
tends to take us out of being present
60:00
with this experience but presence with
60:08
this experience or at least remaining
60:11
free of the thinking line doesn’t
60:15
exclusively mean that we now are going
60:17
to be interested in all aspects of the
60:19
experience either
60:21
whereas mindfulness can sometimes make
60:25
it seem like we have to be completely
60:28
alert of the experience and all of the
60:33
components of the experience which is
60:36
really more a methodology in a way to
60:38
bring us into presence and then once
60:40
that has done whatever job it needs to
60:44
do primarily to bring us out of the
60:46
thinking mind we can end in a dissolving
60:52
of the thinking mind then you can allow
60:54
the moment to be as it is and just rest
61:00
in a state of relaxation
61:05
without an insistence that you put a lot
61:09
of attention onto a onto all of the
61:12
senses that are happening at the moment
61:14
is that is in a way a manipulation of
61:17
what would be there if you just let
61:21
things happen naturally but it’s a
61:25
useful practice so the third one then
61:34
was I don’t know if you know the the
61:39
practice of a passion huh
61:43
when I spent time out there it was about
61:46
trying to feel the sensations of your
61:48
body so I was just curious is that a
61:51
technique that that facilitates being in
61:57
I am the other opinion yes it’s a
62:04
practice that starts off usually with a
62:09
lot of effort in a sense and then can
62:12
become effortless as a witnessing kicks
62:19
in it’s a practice that is there
62:24
prompting us to function differently
62:28
than we normally function and bringing
62:32
attention on to the sensations in the
62:35
body and essentially instructing us not
62:41
to interfere with any of it that’s why
62:44
we have to sit still for so long and
62:47
just allow the sensations to arise and
62:50
witness them come and go and that can be
62:55
very effective at bringing about a
62:56
witnessing now when we’re talking about
63:00
I am and witnessing there’s a subtle
63:01
difference often the two components of
63:06
consciousness that I put forward as
63:10
awareness and beingness present
63:14
themselves first one and then the other
63:17
so the
63:18
bursting forth of I am and we where we
63:20
sense and become aware of our own
63:23
existence is different to the
63:29
recognition of the self aspect that is
63:32
the formless awareness so when there is
63:36
a shift and we come to know ourself not
63:40
exclusively as the body and where the
63:43
sense of the body being the subject
63:45
falls away and there’s this sort of
63:47
spacious and sense that I am the
63:52
formless awareness that is all pervading
63:54
that that is part of an awakening part
63:58
of the self-realization but they tend to
64:01
present differently so the awakening to
64:04
the sense of being often presents at a
64:07
different time to the awakening of the
64:09
sense of awareness and when there is the
64:13
awakening to the sense of awareness
64:15
which is much more correlated with a
64:20
witnessing aspect when there is that
64:23
awakening to the sense of awareness the
64:25
sense of beingness often isn’t
64:28
particularly present what is more
64:33
present in that sense of spacious
64:35
awareness is what we might call
64:38
emptiness or no thingness formless
64:46
awareness and this and and then it’s
64:53
intense ‘fl in the sense of beingness is
64:55
sort of quite devoid in that experience
64:59
and so in in the partner um what I
65:05
suspect presents is this formless
65:10
awareness aspect of the the core of the
65:15
human being
65:18
so did I understand you when you
65:22
differentiate it witnessing from abiding
65:24
in i am-ness the differences in in
65:27
witnessing you’re still aware of a
65:30
person doing the witnessing it nowhere
65:34
as in i am a when you’re abiding and i
65:36
am you lose that do you lose that or
65:41
don’t have that sense of of you know of
65:46
you know so let me just correct i am
65:51
differentiating between in a way because
65:55
the thing is that one presents first and
65:58
then the other tends to present so first
66:00
the sense of beingness presents let’s
66:05
say first and then the awareness of
66:10
awareness presents or for some people
66:12
first the awareness of awareness
66:13
presents and then the sense of beingness
66:18
presents now the sense of beingness
66:20
requires us to sort of inhabit the body
66:23
more whereas the sense of being
66:27
awareness tends to make the body more as
66:32
an object and so that their different
66:35
methodologies or different parts of the
66:37
process and so that’s why i suggest that
66:40
when in vajrasana the body is presented
66:48
much more as an object and all the
66:51
sensations that arise referred to as
66:55
just biological sensations arising and
67:00
so then that’s why it encourages more of
67:02
a witnessing and so i when I talk about
67:05
witnessing I’m not talking about a
67:07
person doing witnessing when I’m talking
67:11
about witnessing it’s a sense that all
67:13
there is is witnessing and no witness
67:16
sir right so in this sense of being
67:19
formless awareness aware of everything
67:22
arising inside of what I am as formless
67:24
awareness it the sense of the person
67:28
doing witnessing is not there
67:31
there is witnessing without a witness er
67:36
being and I am not entirely because when
67:42
there is this witnessing without the
67:46
sense of a witness sir the sense of I am
67:51
or beingness is actually less present
67:57
because in the pronounced witnessing
68:01
where there is only witnessing and the
68:03
witness er what is being demonstrated by
68:08
life essentially by presenting that
68:12
palpable experience or state it’s
68:18
highlighting the formless awareness
68:21
aspect of the consciousness that is
68:24
functioning through the human being so
68:26
it’s bringing that into view and so
68:29
that’s why it does it sort of a phase at
68:32
a time because it’s the whole problem
68:36
beforehand is that there’s this whole
68:38
mishmash of experience and we don’t know
68:41
all of the different components of
68:42
experience and so through the process
68:46
teachings focus on various aspects and
68:50
because the teaching is focusing on an
68:52
aspect that tends to be what reveals
68:55
itself and so the formless awareness
68:59
aspect can reveal itself and remain
69:03
present for longer longer long enough
69:05
for us to appreciate that that is an
69:08
aspect of the consciousness functioning
69:11
through the human being and always has
69:12
been and always will be
69:13
and once that’s being seen the the
69:21
experience can then change it can change
69:23
because now it’s known now it’s it’s
69:27
it’s it’s presented itself for long
69:30
enough and we’ve abide abided there for
69:34
long enough
69:35
now when I say abide not necessarily in
69:37
I am but abide let’s say as the formless
69:40
witnessing which is it is different
69:44
again to
69:45
abiding in I am whether we’re much more
69:49
embodied in the body and that will be
69:54
something that naturally the process
69:59
then will find we’re reading books or
70:01
listening to things that are talking
70:02
about abiding in I am rather than
70:06
formless witnessing and that’s what then
70:10
might bring about the next phase which
70:16
is where the I am this presents and then
70:19
after they’ve both presented
70:20
individually emerging comes together and
70:23
we realize actually this i am lesan this
70:25
beingness and not two they’re two sides
70:28
of the one coin and then those two
70:32
aspects once they’ve merge tend to fall
70:35
away and become not noticeable just so
70:47
you can clarify that more i mean if we
70:48
all close our eyes right now and we ask
70:50
the question are we alive there’s an
70:53
experience and if we ask the question
70:55
are we aware is the same experience
70:57
right i mean they did not not
71:00
fundamentally to in that’s right yeah so
71:04
in two aspects of consciousness like two
71:07
facets of a diamond you could say but I
71:09
mean are they even to I mean in the
71:11
sense if you ask am i aware do you not
71:15
go to the same experience as the one to
71:18
which if you ask am i alive I mean
71:20
where’s the distinction the distinction
71:22
only happens it’s a great question no
71:25
they’re not – we only because we’re
71:27
talking about them we create conceptual
71:30
distinctions which can be useful at
71:33
bringing attention on two aspects that
71:36
we haven’t landed on before but the
71:39
conceptual distinction just like the
71:41
working mind and the thinking mind that
71:43
sort of suggests that there are two a
71:46
working mind and a thinking mind but
71:47
actually there’s just one processing
71:50
unit the brain and so we’re creating a
71:52
conceptual distinction for the benefit
71:54
of being able to under
71:57
stand something that we didn’t
72:00
understand before and then at some point
72:02
we see that these conceptual
72:03
distinctions are exactly that they’re a
72:06
conceptual distinction of something that
72:09
is not too and the same with this that’s
72:14
why I say the two aspects of
72:15
consciousness but really it’s just
72:16
consciousness our awareness and
72:21
beingness and along the way in the
72:25
different phases of the process when
72:28
someone goes to there if you ask them
72:31
are you aware they’ll be very familiar
72:34
with the awareness aspect they might
72:37
close their eyes and know know that the
72:42
experience is of this formless awareness
72:45
that isn’t located anywhere isn’t
72:47
physical and so they’re very intimately
72:51
aware of the awareness but if the
72:55
beingness aspect hasn’t shown itself and
73:01
you talk about are you alive they could
73:07
answer it like theoretically yes or but
73:10
experientially that aspect might not
73:13
have revealed itself yet and vice-versa
73:19
but once both aspects have revealed
73:21
themselves and integrated themselves
73:25
then you’re exactly right it’s like well
73:27
when I know that I’m aware I know that
73:30
I’m alive when I know that I’m alive I
73:32
know that I’m aware but if the sense of
73:37
existence hasn’t revealed itself but the
73:39
awareness has someone can say why no
73:40
unaware but I don’t know that on the
73:44
they you know cognitively the the
73:49
recognition that I am Alive which
73:53
everyone has all the time everyone has
73:55
this sense of being alive and yet
74:00
awareness of it hasn’t happened so I
74:04
mean we’re really getting into sort of
74:07
nuances of
74:10
um an exploration into the nature of
74:15
consciousness or the nature of the
74:17
personal consciousness experience which
74:19
a lot of people can lose interest in
74:23
because it’s not where their processes
74:29
but it’s also very useful for some
74:33
people when that is what they’re
74:34
focusing on so is there a way to
74:45
practice I am as in being the beingness
74:54
aspect or the witnessing aspect because
74:59
there are in a way there are two
75:00
different movements that kick in at
75:04
different phases one to one that
75:10
enhances or reveals the i am-ness and
75:13
the other that reveals the witnessing
75:15
aspect which are really not two we end
75:19
up but they present one after the other
75:20
and in the non-dual path that is being
75:29
aided by a lot of these top-down
75:32
teachings the awareness aspect happens
75:35
first and then there is a requirement in
75:46
a sense to come back into the body in
75:50
order to feel the being aspect and so if
75:55
someone saying how do I practice or how
75:58
am i coming I am this because I’m
76:02
familiar with this formless awareness
76:05
aspect and often people will call that
76:08
formless awareness I am this right I’m
76:12
creating a distinction so i I’ve had
76:15
conversations with people referring to I
76:18
am I am I am but actually the
76:21
conversation is talking about formless
76:22
awareness
76:24
right and so then I say well your it
76:28
seems like you’re referring to the
76:30
realization of the awareness aspect as I
76:35
am whereas if we start getting a little
76:37
bit technical about it just for the
76:39
purpose of revealing different aspects
76:42
because at the end of it put all of
76:43
these distinctions and descriptions
76:47
aside and you just live life right at a
76:50
certain point but there is a benefit in
76:53
in getting into the nuances for a while
76:59
and so if someone is aware of the
77:04
formless awareness and realizes that
77:07
they’re aware of the formless awareness
77:08
but this beingness aspect this I am this
77:12
is not really something they’re familiar
77:14
with then my suggestion is you often
77:19
need to reinvent the body to start
77:23
feeling a connection to the spiritual
77:25
heart and to feel this I am this and
77:33
that can sound counterintuitive because
77:36
what brought about the witnessing our
77:38
teachings that have in a way created a
77:45
dispassion for the body a disinterest in
77:49
the body by describing it which it is in
77:54
part as just an object not what you are
77:59
so those teachings did their job of
78:04
essentially bringing awareness onto the
78:06
awareness aspect by emphasizing the body
78:13
is just an object and not what you are
78:15
and so then if we say now it’s time for
78:19
you to rien habit the body someone can
78:22
say what are you talking about that was
78:23
the error that I had made originally and
78:27
then when I stopped being interested in
78:29
the body this revelation of myself has
78:34
fullness awareness happened um
78:36
and I agree so I’m that’s why it’s
78:40
important to sort of describe it as
78:43
phases and so people only take note of
78:46
what I’m saying if it seems like this is
78:48
appropriate for where you are so if
78:53
someone is out in the formless awareness
78:56
the suggestions we have to come back and
78:58
inhabit the body if the belief in douche
79:05
of an attachment hasn’t been addressed
79:08
in the earlier phases and a realization
79:12
of the formless awareness happened which
79:15
it can then when we re inhabit the body
79:18
there’s an uncomfortableness and then
79:21
the person says you see this is the
79:23
problem being the body is the problem
79:26
and so I’m going to go back into being
79:29
formless awareness at some point that
79:32
becomes what is referred to as spiritual
79:35
bypassing so at the beginning it does
79:38
its job to awaken to awareness but then
79:41
if we start hanging out there you know
79:44
and disregarding the body as part of
79:50
what we are then it turns into
79:53
dissociation dissociation is something
79:58
that happens not only through spiritual
80:02
process but when people have a strong
80:05
trauma in the body automatically a
80:07
dissociation from the body happens and
80:10
that’s not freedom that’s a coping
80:13
mechanism with intense uncomfortableness
80:17
in the body so if we re inhabit the body
80:21
and find there’s this uncomfortableness
80:25
there that’s an indication not that the
80:30
problem is being a person but an
80:33
indication that the system hasn’t
80:36
actually had a lot of the traumas
80:40
uprooted from the system and we’ve just
80:42
found a temporary solution in a sense
80:55
when Miss Gautama logic is flawless
80:58
heirs build all this question time he
81:02
meant to be it’s hard just to say
81:15
because a large part of NASA Garrity’s
81:18
teaching is an awakening teaching
81:22
awakening to the fallenness awareness
81:24
aspect so the can so your question just
81:31
will use the microphone even though I
81:33
can hear you but for the sake of the
81:34
recording so your question was when
81:37
Nyssa Gaddafi referred to abiding in I
81:39
am he was talking about the being and I
81:42
would say yes he was referring to I am
81:48
in both senses witnessing and beingness
81:55
and I’m just creating a distinction
81:59
because they to me there are different
82:01
awakenings at different phases so why I
82:06
say he’s talking about both witnessing
82:10
and being is because a large part of his
82:16
teaching and process is to say you are
82:18
not the body what you are is
82:20
consciousness and that’s an awakening
82:22
teaching that’s a methodology that
82:25
breaks the obsession with the physical
82:27
that then prevents a recognition of the
82:31
formless awareness and so the way that a
82:35
teaching breaks that is by saying
82:37
actually that which you are obsessed
82:39
with that which you are attached to is
82:42
not what you are and its illusion like
82:48
the world is the world which includes
82:51
the body is all illusory unreal so
82:56
become aware of that which is real the
82:59
absolute and so that’s creating shift
83:06
and an awakening to the formless
83:09
awareness the witnessing but then it’s
83:11
also very clear in his teachings that he
83:16
is also talking about the beingness
83:18
aspect
83:43
all of this I’ll add given this is what
83:47
the content of today’s talk has been is
83:50
that we can become very easily the brain
83:54
the thinking mind is very impressionable
83:56
and the working mind which is a curse
84:00
and the benefit
84:02
it means it’s highly changeable and all
84:08
this talk about these shifts in
84:12
consciousness states of consciousness
84:14
you could say or states of the personal
84:17
consciousness experience from the very
84:20
involved personal consciousness to the
84:22
very impersonal versions of personal
84:25
consciousness experience when we start
84:27
talking about the nature of experience
84:30
we can very easily and I’m sure people
84:33
listening to it who can see a thinking
84:37
pattern that says oh I don’t have this I
84:40
wonder when this is going to happen and
84:42
we can become overly attached to
84:48
experience changes in experience and
84:50
really all of what we’re talking about
84:54
here is relevant for is because it leads
84:57
to peace of mind and daily living for
85:00
the human being and it’s very evident to
85:08
me that the process by which we get to
85:11
peace of mind in daily living is varied
85:15
there are different paths so we have the
85:19
very broad different paths bhakti jnana
85:23
karma yoga Kundalini Yoga so the broad
85:29
path but then even within a specific
85:31
path of let’s say jnana yoga there are
85:34
different sub paths in there and the aim
85:43
in a sense not that we should turn it
85:45
into a psychological aim but when we
85:47
just look at it in personally the the
85:48
movement is to bring about peace of mind
85:51
in daily living
85:54
and the different paths can bring about
85:56
this peace of mind in different ways
85:58
which means these awakenings can happen
86:01
very differently and sometimes they
86:03
happen in a way that’s not even
86:05
registered which might make someone
86:10
think all I haven’t had those awakenings
86:12
but who cares if the peace of mind is
86:14
being delivered right we don’t need the
86:18
specific experiences if the important
86:24
changes are being done made in a
86:26
different way so the example I’ve used
86:30
in the past is I used the train system
86:34
in England not particularly familiar
86:36
with it but we’ll just make some stuff
86:38
up let’s say the peace of mind is
86:40
Jubilee station and one way of getting
86:45
to Jubilee station is through Piccadilly
86:47
station and another way of getting to
86:51
Jubilee station is through Paddington
86:54
Station and if someone is on the path
86:59
that goes through Paddington Station and
87:01
they’re gone through Paddington Station
87:03
and they’re on their way to Jubilee
87:05
station and then they start hearing all
87:07
of these descriptions about Piccadilly
87:10
station and in the methodology that is
87:14
trying to get us to Jubilee station
87:18
through Piccadilly station the
87:21
methodology doesn’t talk about Jubilee
87:23
station because the methodology knows
87:25
let me not talk about Jubilee station
87:26
let me just talk about Piccadilly
87:28
station which is a stop along the way to
87:31
Jubilee station so the person that’s on
87:34
a path that isn’t through Piccadilly
87:36
station but through Paddington Station
87:39
on their way to Jubilee station here’s
87:41
all of this talk about Piccadilly
87:44
station and in the talk about Piccadilly
87:48
station there’s no reference to Jubilee
87:50
station which is where everyone is on
87:52
their way to and then the person thinks
87:55
of something’s very wrong I have I
87:57
haven’t gone to Piccadilly station yet
87:59
how am I going to get to Piccadilly
88:01
station and it all becomes about
88:03
Piccadilly station whereas they may be
88:06
very close to
88:08
jubilee station on the path that they’re
88:10
on they might actually be a jubilee
88:12
station and if they get too convinced
88:14
that Piccadilly station is important
88:16
they effectively don’t know that they’re
88:20
where they want to go and there’s all
88:22
sorts of problems and so it might just
88:26
take someone to say hey you know don’t
88:28
worry about Piccadilly station you’re
88:30
actually a Jubilee station where you
88:32
need to be and Piccadilly station is
88:34
just another route through which some
88:38
people get to Jubilee station
89:03
so what are we really looking forward
89:05
looking for peace of mind in daily
89:06
living which is the absence of suffering
89:09
the suffering in practical terms guilt
89:12
blame pride worry expectation an
89:15
attachment to outcomes the basis of the
89:18
guilt blame pride is the belief in
89:20
personal doership the basis of the
89:22
expectation worry the anxiety worry
89:26
expectation an attachment to outcome is
89:28
the belief that my happiness is to be
89:30
found in outcomes both those beliefs are
89:36
deeply deeply ingrained in the system
89:39
the beliefs need to be uprooted they get
89:42
uprooted by us seeing that the beliefs
89:46
that lead to the suffering are not as
89:50
valid when we investigate or see life as
89:55
its described and then start to see it
89:58
for ourselves and so the beliefs on
90:02
which the suffering arise get eroded and
90:06
they get aided or the processes that the
90:10
erosion process is aided by not only
90:13
seeing that those beliefs are inaccurate
90:17
but by experientially finding us resting
90:21
in our own being that shows us
90:27
experientially that what we are is not
90:31
the doer and therefore we understand the
90:34
other is also the same not the doer and
90:38
that my happiness is not to be found and
90:41
outcomes where I thought it used to be
90:44
found so all of this talk and all of
90:49
these different methodologies that bring
90:53
about shifts in consciousness are all
90:57
aimed at changing the structure of the
91:01
body mind organism such that the
91:04
suffering no longer arises in the way
91:09
that in the past and that there is more
91:12
peace of mind in daily living means
91:15
meaning we carry on living as the human
91:17
being doing in each moment whatever our
91:19
circumstance dictates needing to
91:22
continue to make decisions in life
91:24
because decisions are the mechanism by
91:27
which the predetermined story of life
91:29
unfolds but now with an understanding
91:33
that whatever I find myself doing is a
91:36
happening according to God’s will
91:38
whatever the other does is also a
91:41
happening according to God’s will and
91:47
therefore life is allowed to unfold
91:50
we remain connected to source meaning we
91:53
remain connected to the core of our
91:56
being rather than being caught in this
91:58
belief of personal doership
92:00
we remain connected to source and from
92:02
their stems this sense of contentment
92:05
and peace of mind
92:20
just a practical question you had just
92:23
talked about the basics and I have two
92:26
or three friends that I would like to
92:28
share your basics do you have some video
92:33
talks value especially can recommend for
92:36
these people that just want to start yes
92:40
well actually I think there’s 200 videos
92:43
or more on YouTube and if someone says
92:46
which video should I watch if I haven’t
92:49
watched anything before I say turn it on
92:51
and pick one because to be frank I think
92:55
at least 85% of them don’t focus on what
93:00
we’ve been talking about today and
93:02
instead focus on the basics from a
93:05
practical daily living point of view so
93:10
if you wanted you could pick on any one
93:15
of them and there’s an 85% chance that
93:18
you’ll see very quickly oh this is about
93:21
the basics and then forward that link on
93:22
to them and then the even nicer part
93:28
about it is if someone clicks on one of
93:30
the 15% that aren’t talking about the
93:33
basics there’s a good chance that maybe
93:37
that’s what they need to hear
93:57
while we’ve got just a few minutes it’s
94:04
worth to throw in that the teaching is
94:08
not talking about becoming a better
94:11
human being in the sense that it’s not
94:14
focused on changing biological reactions
94:21
in life those biological reactions will
94:25
remain more or less fixed or they’ll
94:29
change based on our experience that
94:33
shows us are functioning biologically
94:35
this way isn’t giving us a great outcome
94:39
and so on that basis the biological
94:42
reactions can change but even
94:44
recognizing that functioning a certain
94:47
ways and giving a great outcome very
94:49
often when it comes to the biological
94:50
reaction doesn’t have the capacity to
94:55
change the biological reaction so the
95:00
teaching is not telling you to become a
95:02
more friendly person or a nicer person
95:06
or a better contributor to society what
95:12
it’s pointing at is an attitude to our
95:16
actions and the raction actions of the
95:19
other an attitude that understands that
95:21
we can only function both biologically
95:24
and psychologically exactly the way that
95:28
life has designed us and with that
95:32
attitude we will continue to function
95:37
biologically more or less as we have
95:39
before but now no longer judging our
95:45
good actions as my good action no longer
95:50
judging my less favorable actions as my
95:53
bad action and more importantly not
95:56
judging the actions of the other as
95:58
their good actions and their bad actions
96:01
but rather seeing the whole thing as a
96:04
series of biological and psychological
96:07
arisings
96:09
within a body mind organism
96:11
understanding that some times life is
96:16
destined deliver pleasure to us and that
96:19
other times life is destined to deliver
96:20
pain and that life uses the other as an
96:26
instrument the other and myself as an
96:28
instrument through which to deliver
96:30
pleasure and pain and that it’s my
96:33
attitude that allows me to be at peace
96:37
or forces me to resist what is happening
96:41
in life and when the attitude of do
96:45
ership and attachment to outcomes
96:46
changes what we find is the result is
96:49
that we don’t become a perfect human
96:51
being but that there is peace of mind in
96:57
our daily life experience and when
97:00
that’s in place we realize that that is
97:02
all that we’ve ever really been looking
97:05
for now this explanation to someone who
97:11
has a strong attachment to outcomes
97:12
meaning a strong belief system within
97:16
their body mind organism very deeply
97:21
ingrained that says my happiness is to
97:23
be found in pleasure pleasure pleasure
97:26
will hear the description and say this
97:29
is a terrible teaching because it’s
97:32
effectively allowing people to remain
97:35
the way they are imperfect and that
97:40
essentially means to that person that
97:43
I’m not going to get pleasure pleasure
97:45
pleasure
97:46
because people being imperfect means
97:48
that they deliver pain to me sometimes
97:51
and the deeply ingrained beliefs is my
97:54
happiness my completeness is dependent
97:56
on pleasure pleasure pleasure and so it
98:00
makes sense to me that if the belief in
98:03
personal dose of an attachment to
98:05
outcomes hears these concepts it will be
98:08
completely unimpressed it’ll find
98:12
everything it has within itself to not
98:20
consider what’s being said as correct in
98:25
order to perpetuate the self-identity
98:28
that believes that what it needs in life
98:32
in order to be complete its pleasure
98:34
pleasure pleasure
98:49
and if someone thinks well you know if
98:54
this belief in personal do ership an
98:56
attachment to outcomes were to dissolve
98:59
what would drive me in life and the
99:03
answer is that what would drive us in
99:06
life is the remaining biological
99:09
preferences that will always move us
99:12
towards pleasure and away from pain and
99:16
so when the attitude of do ership falls
99:18
away we still have our biological
99:19
preferences um and along with that doubt
99:25
someone might say well if the belief in
99:28
Ducie of an attachment to outcomes falls
99:30
away then I’m going to become and the
99:34
rest of society will become
99:35
irresponsible and complacent and in fact
99:41
when we look at it more closely we find
99:44
that it’s this belief in personal
99:45
doership and attachment to outcomes that
99:48
is continually looking at the other as a
99:50
competitor as a rival as an enemy
99:52
creating boundaries and separation
99:55
between me and someone else who is
99:58
different psychological boundaries and
100:01
psychological separations judgments
100:04
continually looking for more more more
100:07
usually material gains in order to feel
100:11
complete fighting the other and
100:13
disregarding the other in order to get
100:15
those gains and so in practice even
100:19
though the thinking mind can’t
100:21
comprehend that the falling away of the
100:24
belief in do ership and attachment to
100:26
outcome is positive in practice what
100:29
happens is a large component of humanity
100:33
that is responsible for the wars and the
100:39
degradation of the planet due to
100:41
excessive consumption the seen the other
100:44
as a rival or a competitor and being
100:49
willing to step on the other in order to
100:51
get what we need that aspect of humanity
100:53
is what is actually falling away when
100:56
the belief in doer ship and attachment
100:58
to outcome falls away and so
101:02
if someone asked me if you could wish
101:08
for anything in life what would you wish
101:11
for and I’d say well from a personal
101:14
point of view I’m extremely grateful for
101:17
one being in a fortunate position in
101:20
life on a flow of life level for that
101:24
I’m very grateful to life but more
101:27
importantly I’m grateful for life for
101:30
having removed the belief in personal
101:32
doership an attachment outcome which
101:34
means that I find myself not only able
101:37
to enjoy a fortunate life but to be at
101:39
peace with the unfortunate aspects of
101:42
life but if someone said hypothetically
101:47
you have an even greater wish and we be
101:50
sure here that we’re just talking about
101:51
hypotheticals to make a point I would
101:54
say I wish that the belief in personal
101:57
doership and attachment to outcome falls
101:59
away for everyone on the planet because
102:04
I have no doubt that if that happens
102:06
what we would end up finding is that the
102:09
basis on which society grows will change
102:13
in a way that is much more altruistic
102:18
than any other change that could happen
102:21
in life with the law

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