01-23-2019 Roger Castillo – meditate only if you feel like it or enjoy it.

  • Holger 

 

Transcript

00:32
so welcome everyone this is um almost
00:36
the last satsang they officially it’s
00:38
the last outside but there’s one more on
00:40
the 25th same time same place if people
00:43
want to come along you’re welcome so
00:47
that’s the day after tomorrow will be a
00:49
joint satsang with myself and a friend
00:54
of mine who was also with Ramesh sir I’m
00:58
particularly looking forward to it
01:07
you’ll notice many of you have been here
01:11
several times if not every day that I
01:15
speak a lot about suffering and the
01:20
falling away of suffering and I describe
01:26
that what we’re really looking for
01:28
according to the concept that’s being
01:31
put forward here so remember these are
01:34
all concepts I know from personal
01:38
experience of their concepts that are
01:40
particularly accurate and useful for the
01:43
process of moving away from suffering in
01:49
daily living towards a state of peace of
01:52
mind in daily living
01:53
so the concept that’s put forward here
01:55
is suggesting that what we’re really
01:57
looking for what this spiritual searcher
02:00
is all about
02:01
in practical terms is the end of
02:05
suffering and you’ll notice that that is
02:14
what we’re looking for presented in its
02:17
negative form in the form of negation
02:19
the absence of something if we want to
02:23
present it in its positive form we call
02:28
the end of suffering peace of mind
02:34
suffering arises as a form of thought
02:38
and in its in its condensed concentrated
02:42
form a feeling and so thought is part of
02:48
the mind
02:49
landscape it’s not the only output of
02:54
mind in fact if we broaden our
02:58
definition of mind we’ll find that the
03:00
whole experience of life which is really
03:05
this experience in this very moment
03:07
that’s all we’ve ever known of our life
03:10
is what’s happening now and the
03:14
experience now often includes objects
03:19
which we refer to as memory which
03:22
reference a past and objects of thought
03:28
which think about a future and so that
03:34
can sometimes make us feel like we’re
03:35
our experience of life is not just now
03:38
when we look at this more closely we’ll
03:40
find actually all we’ve ever had is this
03:42
present moment experience and that
03:47
present moment experience is essentially
03:49
all mind
03:53
it’s a rising in mind and I can sound
04:03
esoteric but an investigation can reveal
04:11
that that’s actually the case that this
04:15
experience is not necessarily as
04:18
objective as we might have thought not
04:21
necessarily as objective as it presents
04:26
that it’s actually a subjective
04:28
experience a subjective experience that
04:33
is presenting as objective so we can’t
04:37
negate the way it presents we can’t come
04:43
to see it as subjective and then only
04:46
relate to it subjectively because the
04:50
fact is that the objectivity of it
04:53
persists
04:57
and so realization is a realization of
05:01
the two levels the subjectivity and the
05:05
objectivity the nothingness and the
05:10
everything.this and the everythingness
05:13
presents and continues to present as a
05:16
story of time and space a story of
05:20
matter and of causality and even when
05:27
it’s seen from a different perspective
05:30
seen to be an arising in consciousness
05:33
spontaneous from one perspective because
05:36
all there is is this appearing in each
05:38
moment just this and so from that point
05:41
of view we said well there is no
05:42
causality because causality requires
05:44
time and if there’s time then space
05:49
comes into existence which is where
05:53
causality happened so if it seemed from
05:56
a particular perspective we can say our
05:59
the time it’s timeless so it’s all
06:03
spontaneous you can understand come to
06:07
understand that and yet the story that
06:09
presents continues to be a story of
06:11
causality things continue to happen
06:16
apparently or according to causality
06:19
meaning a glass of orange juice doesn’t
06:25
just appear on the table it appears
06:30
because first someone comes and takes
06:32
the order and then they bring it up and
06:35
put it on the table so even after the
06:39
recognition that this isn’t necessarily
06:41
as objective as it seems the objective
06:45
continues to be there even after a
06:48
realization that causality may not
06:50
actually be the ultimate dynamic
06:59
we can’t ignore that after these
07:02
realizations causality still continues
07:17
so that’s why it’s valid to approach a
07:19
seeking from a practical point of view
07:23
acknowledging causality acknowledging
07:26
the body acknowledging this world not
07:31
just as illusion but as one with what is
07:37
what can be seen to be coexisting so
07:47
then if we address it from a practical
07:49
point of view we can talk about what
07:52
does this search and the various
07:54
insights delivering practical terms and
08:00
the suggestion is it delivers peace of
08:04
mind in daily living peace of mind is a
08:12
quieting down of a certain type of
08:14
thinking thinking that arises in the
08:19
mind so then we can say there is a more
08:26
peaceful quiet mind
08:48
so does that mean that all the negative
08:52
thinking is not arising anymore
08:54
there is no negative faults um rather
08:58
than describing it as negative thoughts
09:01
I would describe it as a subset of
09:04
thoughts and the subset of thoughts
09:08
includes thinking along the lines of
09:14
guilt and shame blame and hatred pride
09:19
and arrogance worry and anxiety
09:24
expectation in the future expectation of
09:29
what happens and attachment to the
09:33
outcomes that arise so all of those
09:40
forms of thinking when we look at them
09:44
relative to peace of mind we could say a
09:45
negative in a sense that they are the
09:48
opposite of peace of mind and so
09:52
complete peace of mind means the
09:53
complete ending of those different forms
09:56
of thinking so Allah in guilt for
10:00
example is like oh I simply wasn’t good
10:03
enough in that situation you know and a
10:08
story that keeps that past in the
10:14
present with a story of the past that is
10:17
an uncomfortableness with myself because
10:20
of the way that we functioned blame is
10:24
the same and pride as saying principle
10:26
of personal do ership but instead of
10:31
being in real in relation to negative
10:33
outcomes it’s in relation to positive
10:35
outcomes so when complete peace of mind
10:40
is there those thoughts stop arising
10:44
regardless of the circumstance we find
10:46
ourself in because the basis on which
10:49
those thoughts used to arise the basis
10:53
which was believed to be
10:56
a relevant way of seeing life an
10:59
accurate way of seeing life become known
11:03
to be a false way of seeing life so
11:07
basically we realize oh what I am and
11:10
what the other is and why things happen
11:13
the way they happen is not because of
11:16
the way I used to see it so once that
11:21
way of seeing it is completely
11:24
annihilated it completely seen through
11:27
as being inaccurate not the way things
11:30
actually function then it makes sense
11:32
that that thinking can fall away forever
11:35
the seed has been uprooted now the
11:40
process is clearly a gradual process
11:44
with parts along the way that arise
11:50
spontaneously but those and and don’t at
11:55
all feel like they have anything to do
11:57
with a gradual process and they are
11:59
actually just part of a gradual process
12:02
so along the way there is a shift that
12:05
happens where that type of thinking can
12:08
continue to arise and there is an
12:11
understanding that it’s continuing to
12:13
arise because of an old habit and the
12:19
leaf that has been seen to be inaccurate
12:21
and yet it still hasn’t been completely
12:24
uprooted and so when that sets in and
12:27
there can be a allowance of that
12:31
suffering to be there without the
12:34
resistance of it being there which is a
12:38
big improvement to the state of
12:46
resisting the resistance wanting it to
12:50
not be there like normal person it’s
12:58
like we see certain beliefs and we judge
13:01
them as limiting so in your case let’s
13:04
say you see to believe that arises and
13:07
you just don’t see it as limiting
13:10
just optional or it doesn’t arise at all
13:13
well I would say from my experience over
13:18
many years those different forms of
13:22
suffering haven’t been arising in my
13:25
life there are other forms that are not
13:32
psychological like suffering there are
13:34
other forms of movements that are not we
13:38
don’t become a perfect person right so
13:40
there are still going to be shortcomings
13:44
in our personality and that is
13:47
understood to be part of the biology and
13:50
so when it arises a shortcoming in my
13:53
personality becomes part of life
13:57
circumstance then it’s understood that
14:02
that is not my doing that was part of
14:08
the functioning of this body mind
14:09
organism that was shaped by life not by
14:12
me and so therefore that shortcoming has
14:17
to present itself in certain
14:21
circumstances
14:28
[Music] 14:51
so that becomes that’s part of the
14:58
realization about the nature of thought
15:02
and therefore about the nature of
15:03
suffering is that we realize actually it
15:06
is just a thought
15:07
it’s just a story that in many cases
15:11
we’ve seen to be inaccurate so
15:15
understanding that about the nature of
15:18
suffering is part of what brings the
15:20
suffering to an end it’s one of the
15:25
insights when it comes to our biological
15:29
functioning it’s not necessarily a
15:32
thought for example we might be short
15:35
tempered or we might tired a lot of the
15:41
time and so from one perspective you
15:43
could say well that’s a biological
15:45
shortcoming to find that you are you get
15:47
tired often or that you are sick let’s
15:52
say it’s a biological shortcoming and so
15:55
some of these are much easier to relate
15:58
to as well
15:59
it’s a shortcoming but something like
16:01
short tempered nurse we tend to feel
16:06
like no that’s something that I can
16:10
control and so short tempered nurse
16:12
doesn’t have anything to do with
16:14
suffering
16:14
once the suffering has fallen away it
16:17
can continue to arise based on the
16:20
predisposition of the body and so that’s
16:25
not a thought we see it in action
16:28
someone does something especially let’s
16:30
say you’re tired and then you notice
16:32
that you’ll become more short-tempered
16:34
when you’re tired and there is a
16:37
snapping at someone and attitudinally
16:42
there is a relationship to that
16:44
functioning as just a happening
16:47
in the flow of life that the flow of
16:51
life is always going to happen one way
16:52
or another and if the attitude has now
16:58
changed whereby the attitude is no
17:01
longer judging everything is my doing
17:04
that should have and could have been
17:06
different then we find that there is a
17:12
neutrality on an attitudinal level with
17:16
the biological response because it’s
17:23
really fascinating that somebody has
17:25
disability so for example in in
17:28
situation when there is some project
17:30
that we want to take and that thought
17:32
comes oh I’m not good enough I’m not
17:34
gonna do that project or we take the
17:36
project we do it and then we start
17:38
thinking oh I could have done it better
17:40
so it’s this type of thinking also not
17:43
there and in terms of you know what I
17:47
mean if you judge the situation we did
17:51
and we said oh I could have done it
17:52
better because you know I have I don’t
17:54
know I’m a perfectionist and it wasn’t
17:57
the way I liked it and it’s of course
17:59
psychological think about it or the
18:02
other one that we do not take action
18:04
because we have believed that we’re not
18:05
good enough which is kind of common I
18:07
can sure so you’ve heard me describe the
18:12
thinking mind and the working mind so
18:15
all of the suffering based on the belief
18:17
in personal doership and attachment to
18:20
outcome so these are the beliefs at the
18:25
base of all suffering and the belief in
18:27
personal doership says i am a separate
18:29
independent entity in complete control
18:32
of everything that happens through me
18:34
and the other is a separate independent
18:36
entity in complete control of everything
18:37
that happens through them that’s part of
18:40
our false idea of who we are false
18:44
because that’s not actually what the
18:47
human being is they aren’t a separate
18:49
independent entity and they’re not in
18:52
control of how they function so if we
18:56
have the belief I am a separate
18:58
independent entity and I am in control
19:00
what happens through me and through the
19:02
other well I’m in control of what
19:05
happens through me and they are in
19:06
control of what happens through them if
19:07
we have that but it’s a false belief and
19:10
highly correlated with that is the
19:14
belief that not only am i the separate
19:16
independent entity in control but I
19:20
require life to turn out pleasure
19:22
pleasure pleasure pleasure in order for
19:24
me to be complete so that’s the basis of
19:27
the thinking mind the working mind has
19:31
the ability to calculate and assess life
19:37
and the working mind is functional it’s
19:40
practical it doesn’t create it’s not an
19:43
it’s not attitudinal to life whereas the
19:47
results of the thinking mind are always
19:49
judging circumstance the working mind
19:55
calculates things it knows how to speak
19:58
it knows how to do the dishes all of
20:01
that is practical functioning of the
20:04
working mind and the working mind can
20:07
look at a project and it can say
20:10
actually the skills that are required
20:12
for this project and not skills that I
20:14
have its assessing the situation
20:18
objectively and it might say well in
20:22
that case I’m not going to apply for the
20:24
job
20:24
and that’s different – judging that’s
20:27
discerning so the working mind is very
20:31
good at discerning situations and it’s
20:35
not afraid to say I made a mistake
20:37
because it can discern a situation and
20:40
they can say actually the outcome there
20:41
was not positive relative to these
20:43
benchmarks the other form which is more
20:50
of the thinking mind is a the thinking
20:53
mind that doubts itself all the time and
20:55
therefore is afraid to move forward
21:00
because of the self-doubt and often the
21:05
self-doubt is
21:08
a misinterpretation of our true self and
21:13
our true capabilities and so it’s not
21:17
when when I say this is my experience
21:20
it’s not something that I achieved
21:23
through what we would call my personal
21:28
effort it’s something that happened
21:31
because life continued to shape me as it
21:36
has done throughout all of our lives
21:39
it’s been shaping us and it just got to
21:42
a point where the way I was shaped moved
21:49
me through asking certain questions and
21:53
being interested in certain things onto
21:56
a spiritual path and then while on that
21:58
spiritual path life delivered what was
22:01
required to bring about specific changes
22:03
so the way I see it is that I can’t help
22:09
but be this way which is why if someone
22:14
says I’m trying very hard to accept life
22:18
for example and acceptance is really
22:22
what is there when non acceptance falls
22:24
away when all of the suffering falls
22:27
away we find we naturally accept life
22:31
it’s not an effort it’s what we could
22:34
say is our nature in the absence of a
22:37
certain type of thinking so when someone
22:40
says I’m trying very hard to accept life
22:42
I say it’s actually impossible to accept
22:44
life if your makeup is such that
22:49
resistance is bound to happen and so the
22:53
understanding of that the understanding
22:56
that acceptance is not something I can
22:59
achieve through good intention or effort
23:06
because it’s impossible to be accepting
23:09
if the body-mind organism is designed in
23:12
a particular moment to resist now that
23:16
might seem
23:18
like bad news but if the working mind
23:23
really here’s what is being said then we
23:29
will resist if we’re designed to resist
23:34
that can become new information it is
23:38
new information can become part of the
23:41
up-to-date-conditioning and it can be
23:44
part of what allows a non resistance to
23:49
the resistance and because the non
23:52
resistance to the resistance is saying
23:55
you know I shouldn’t be like this I
23:58
should be better I should not suffer
24:01
that’s what the resistance is saying and
24:03
so it’s effectively resisting the fact
24:06
that suffering is present if the working
24:09
mind understands suffering is present
24:11
not because you are failing but because
24:14
life has destined there to be suffering
24:18
in this moment by designing the body
24:21
mind organism a particular way and by
24:24
presenting a circumstance that is very
24:27
particular and as a result there has to
24:30
be suffering but can’t function
24:34
differently this understanding which is
24:38
the core of what’s being spoken about
24:39
here can create a great relief and
24:45
allowance for life to be as it is for
24:48
you to be as you are
24:50
if the thinking mind hears all the talk
24:56
about peace of mind and daily living
24:59
unbroken peace of mind and daily living
25:01
and it takes it on and says okay so this
25:04
is the task that I have to achieve it’s
25:08
missing a very key component of that is
25:14
described the component on which the
25:17
peace of mind arises the peace of mind
25:21
is based on recognizing that we are not
25:24
the doers that life dictates
25:29
how we function so if the thinking mind
25:34
says okay you’ve told me about peace of
25:37
mind I’m gonna go and make it happen
25:40
it’s reinforcing the very basis on which
25:48
the opposite of peace of mind happens so
25:53
this is what surrender is surrender is
25:57
it’s a surrendering to life assent
26:00
rendering to God’s will
26:03
it’s a surrendering of our controlling
26:08
impulse and sometimes it takes life to
26:15
really take us to breaking point before
26:21
a surrender a spontaneous surrender
26:24
happens because even surrendering is not
26:26
something you do with effort like oh I
26:30
am going to surrender surrendering is it
26:32
it’s a graceful happening and it can
26:37
happen because life takes us to breaking
26:40
point where you know years and years of
26:43
seeking happens and then just like that
26:48
a situation happens and we fall into the
26:51
old pattern of resistance let’s say and
26:56
they can be this insight that dawns it
26:59
says I simply can’t do this I’ve been
27:03
trying for thirty years to perfect to
27:07
understand what has been said in all the
27:09
books and still this situation happens
27:15
and there I go again resisting feeling
27:20
uncomfortable and when that in
27:24
comfortableness is strong enough it’s a
27:28
moment of insight that really gets us to
27:31
acknowledge what life is showing us it’s
27:37
it’s the realization I’m I’m not the one
27:43
managing the show I’m not the one that
27:47
from my effort can fix this problem I’ve
27:52
been trying from my effort and when that
27:56
insight happens there is a natural
27:59
surrender and then the irony is peace
28:09
and it’s like well I’ve been 40 years
28:12
I’ve been struggling to try and bring in
28:15
peace and then in an instant when there
28:18
is surrender of personal doership
28:24
the struggle falls away so it shows the
28:28
struggle is this this principle that’s
28:33
in place that says I must make things
28:36
happen I’m the one that needs to think a
28:40
lot about life in order for it to turn
28:42
out somewhat reasonably
28:58
just if we use the in the meantime um oh
29:04
well it’s not a very big mean time
29:06
reliever I really like what you say
29:11
about surrounded work also something
29:13
it’s just okay I know this nobody can do
29:17
it and then the other moment say okay
29:20
it’s nothing to do but this also is no
29:22
me and which is which is not you the
29:27
both who these who can do it and these
29:33
who can don’t do it yeah and then
29:36
surrender natural surrounding happen or
29:39
just be fresh and clear yes it surrender
29:46
is definitely not the Nisei oh I can’t
29:50
do it that’s not the real realization I
29:55
can’t do it that’s just sometimes it’s
29:57
like I’ve heard and so many times I
29:59
can’t do it think I’ve been told I’m not
30:02
the doer and then we say okay so the
30:04
answer must be for me to admit I can’t
30:07
do it and that’s still someone trying to
30:11
get something by admitting that they
30:14
can’t do it so it needs to be a real
30:18
yeah really
30:21
not the doer yeah realization which
30:27
happens often when we’re not even
30:34
thinking about
30:40
[Music] 30:44
the other way the surrender happens
30:47
which doesn’t necessarily require us to
30:51
smash us into the ground that many times
30:55
that there’s a natural recognition and
30:59
giving up in a sense is for us to see it
31:06
because of an investigation
31:11
investigation for our self based on our
31:14
own life experience following pointers
31:20
and at some point if the investigation
31:28
is genuine and earnest not necessarily
31:32
because we want to get somewhere but
31:35
because we’re interested in really
31:36
understanding what life is about how it
31:40
works and who we are so there’s a
31:43
curiosity a real earnest genuine want to
31:50
see and if that’s the case and Ness
31:54
Agartha often said all that is required
31:56
is earnestness which really means if
31:59
there’s earnestness the process on that
32:02
bed of earnestness will unfold but you
32:10
can’t fake earnestness it’s what he’s
32:12
saying the earnestness is like if he
32:14
were to say you know that is an earnest
32:17
seeker and that is not an earnest seeker
32:19
he’s not judging them he’s discerning
32:22
because he understands earnestness is
32:24
something that happens it’s part of the
32:27
makeup and then you can’t help but be
32:30
earnest because earnestness has happened
32:33
the earnestness is when life is said I’m
32:35
not interested in anything else for
32:37
example I’ve seen that seeking pleasure
32:39
pleasure pleasure doesn’t give me peace
32:43
of mind for example and so life has
32:45
turned us away from everything else and
32:49
often an earnestness to be honest
32:54
earnestness tends to come when suffering
32:57
isn’t that intense when someone’s
33:01
suffering is intense there tends to be
33:04
more desperation than earnestness that
33:08
doesn’t mean that doesn’t mean that
33:13
process isn’t working it just means that
33:17
earnestness is yet to set in and when
33:23
earnestness is there then things move
33:26
quicker when desperation is there things
33:30
are still moving but the desperation
33:32
could mean I need this I can’t not have
33:36
it and so that desperation for something
33:39
tends to be an attachment and attachment
33:42
itself is part of the problem so it’s
33:45
the same as it’s the same as many of the
33:53
different forms of suffering if our
33:56
process is functioning through one of
33:58
the principles of doer shapour
34:00
attachment then the seeking itself is
34:03
actually reinforcing the suffering and
34:06
we can feel when our process changes
34:09
goes through different changes and part
34:14
of this earnestness is to surrender to
34:21
the fact that actually maybe it’s my
34:22
destiny for there to be suffering for
34:25
the rest of my life can you surrender to
34:28
that is that is that acceptable
34:42
because it’s possible many people die
34:46
frustrated so we might say no I’m not
34:52
going to surrender to that that’s that’s
34:54
not good news
34:56
the irony is it’s a big leap forward
35:02
towards peace of mind this is the the
35:07
paradox of this movement its offer often
35:14
counterintuitive we think that if I
35:19
surrender to suffering being here that’s
35:22
not going to fix the problem I have to
35:26
resist suffering if it’s going to get
35:29
fixed and a surrender to it is a huge
35:33
step towards the end of suffering
35:56
a shift oh yes I think I was well a
36:02
shift out of thinking into being is a
36:07
significant part of suffering slowing
36:13
down was in being we tend to get a
36:18
glimpse a taste of what our true nature
36:23
is if we find ourselves in a
36:28
circumstance and the thinking mind is
36:30
active blame towards the other for what
36:33
they didn’t do or what they did do or
36:34
whatever and we’ve been equipped the
36:39
working mind has been equipped to
36:40
recognize that as the suffering that can
36:42
come to an end and if the working mind
36:47
has been equipped to understand that
36:49
Blane is seeing the other as the doer
36:51
and it’s based on believing that my
36:55
happiness was dependent on that
36:57
circumstance not happening so based on
37:00
the belief my completeness is based on
37:02
pleasure pleasure pleasure so if the
37:05
working mind has been equipped to
37:07
understand the forms of suffering sees
37:10
this blame as very clearly a form of
37:12
suffering has been equipped to
37:15
understand that the movement is simply
37:19
the dropping of that thinking the
37:23
falling away of their thinking we may
37:28
well have found that the falling away of
37:30
that thinking happens when we drop into
37:32
a gear or a place in the body or in life
37:40
that is outside of the stream of thought
37:43
and if that movement has started to
37:47
happen we’re almost at will which is not
37:53
really your will but it’s now the
37:54
functioning of a biological instrument
37:57
that has been changed we can drop into
38:00
being and essentially that means
38:04
becoming present because the suffering
38:08
the blame is
38:10
lane towards an event that has happened
38:14
and if they’re dropping happens in we
38:16
realize Here I am as the blame stops
38:21
when we drop in and we remember oh what
38:25
I am doesn’t require life to look a
38:29
particular way so we remember we drop
38:32
back in and to the extent that that
38:34
happens we start getting firsthand
38:36
confirmation that the core of the human
38:39
being is peace that the core of what I
38:45
am doesn’t require life to be this way
38:47
or that way so we have really good
38:49
example that painful situation happened
38:52
blame towards the circumstance so it’s
38:55
our attitude towards the circumstance
38:57
was there and that’s suffering and then
38:59
in an instant we drop into being which
39:04
is outside of the stream of thinking and
39:07
part of dropping into being means become
39:09
present with what’s here now which isn’t
39:13
the event that happened yesterday or a
39:18
year ago or two minutes ago it’s like so
39:23
it means become present and present not
39:25
only with the outside because the pain
39:30
might actually still be in the other
39:33
having become present with your inner
39:38
being
39:43
now once again these words sound like
39:45
their prescriptions of something for you
39:47
to do someone goes okay where is this
39:49
inner being how do I become present with
39:51
it and it becomes a new mission you know
39:54
I’m talking about something that has
39:58
happened gradually slowly probably
40:01
because we have got stuck in also trying
40:03
to make it happen let me be present with
40:06
my inner being and then at some point is
40:07
real I just stop like stop even trying
40:13
to find it
40:15
and it we might find it so it’s it’s a
40:24
place that we find it’s ourself really
40:30
core of ourself so it’s a movement that
40:33
starts to happen and then it shows us
40:35
you know the circumstance is still the
40:37
same you know the person has still
40:40
stolen from me or cheated on me or died
40:43
on me and yet I’m at peace so we know my
40:47
peace isn’t dependent on the
40:50
circumstance not being there it’s a
40:52
great if we if we can find ourselves
40:54
dropping out of suffering into being
40:56
where we suddenly it’s like the clouds
40:59
part and we then we have first hand
41:05
first hand seeing that my happiness my
41:10
completeness my beingness is not
41:13
dependent on circumstance
41:29
in order to drop into the being the deep
41:34
long meditation is helpful if you enjoy
41:40
doing it not as a discipline ramesh
41:47
didn’t really recommend it right he
41:51
recommended it if you enjoy doing it but
41:56
to drop into the being is we go out from
42:02
our mind go over the mind so I could
42:09
transcending transcendence but actually
42:12
it I would say because you point it off
42:15
I don’t know if that’s what you meant
42:16
it’s not coming out of the body in being
42:19
actually I would say come into the body
42:22
out of the mind into the heart you could
42:25
say that means doesn’t help meditation
42:31
is not really here to know I wouldn’t
42:36
agree with that I think meditation can
42:38
be very helpful mm-hmm but I wouldn’t
42:40
recommend you meditate unless you feel
42:43
like it feel like so the description is
42:49
meditation can be very helpful for this
42:53
process of realizing or finding the mind
42:58
quieting down and arresting in self for
43:02
being now that doesn’t say that’s not
43:05
the only way in my process I actually
43:09
found I meditated very little and it was
43:15
only after certain realization happened
43:17
that I found myself really appreciating
43:20
sitting quietly and meditating so
43:23
meditation isn’t at all the only way but
43:28
it can be a very useful
43:35
atmosphere very useful Lance
43:38
investigation or space because we close
43:41
often you close your eyes and meditation
43:43
and a whole lot of objects of experience
43:49
fall away oh yes sure yeah this is true
44:06
though I was starting off with I was
44:08
starting off with the you close your
44:10
eyes and the objects of the senses tend
44:15
to drop away first visual and as you
44:18
said we might find that there are a
44:20
whole lot more thoughts arising in that
44:23
space because what’s happened is it’s a
44:26
lot of the distractions have fallen away
44:31
and remaining with distractions isn’t
44:40
going to ultimately help it might feel
44:42
better than sitting quietly but if we
44:47
can start to appreciate that the mind
44:52
naturally will quiet and down but it
44:57
might need 10 or 15 minutes before it
45:00
actually is noticeably quieting down so
45:03
if after 7 minutes you say this is
45:05
really not working it might just mean a
45:09
little bit more time so it is
45:12
interesting to persist a little more
45:16
than we might like to on the basis that
45:19
are a bit more time might mean that the
45:23
ferocity of the thinking quiets down I
45:28
don’t recommend remaining in meditation
45:31
when you don’t feel like it hmm one of
45:35
the great movements is to stop following
45:40
shoulds and shouldn’t one of the
45:42
freedoms because that means that I’m not
45:46
attached to an
45:47
I should and shouldn’t so really
45:49
attached to now I should meditate for
45:52
two hours a day because that will get me
45:54
something and so my suggestion is if you
45:59
sit down for meditation and after 2
46:01
minutes you want to get up get up
46:04
meditation finished and what a freedom
46:09
that if we can start living our whole
46:12
life like that what we’ll find is that a
46:16
quietening down will happen because
46:18
we’re shedding shoulds insurance but
46:22
what I’m suggesting here is maybe not
46:25
appropriate for everyone so some people
46:28
need to go to a Vipassana retreat let’s
46:32
say right and maybe in the days you know
46:36
there’s someone with a stick and if you
46:38
move you get whacked and that’s
46:43
appropriate for some people it’s a it’s
46:46
a path it’s a methodology yeah I did it
46:48
afterwards afterwards I realize myself
46:53
my eggo become more stronger because I
46:56
did it I could do it yeah yeah and feel
47:01
separation from Jota food don’t do
47:05
meditation yes so that’s why like we
47:09
might start off meditating where there
47:11
is a meditator the one that I will stay
47:15
still I will sit through all the
47:18
meditations I can do it and there is a
47:21
meditator of the meditation and in time
47:24
as meditation develops we find the
47:27
meditator falls away the one that says
47:31
don’t stand up and go make a tea remain
47:36
meditating that’s the meditator and in
47:40
time we realize that the developing of
47:46
many real meditation which I know who
47:49
knows what real meditation is but my
47:50
definition of meditation is allowing
47:52
everything to be as it is right being in
47:54
a position where what arises is
47:57
understood to be happening
47:58
so if you sit in meditation because you
48:01
feel like it and you close your eyes and
48:04
thoughts are arising then hopefully we
48:08
don’t have an idea of what a good
48:10
meditation is versus a bad meditation
48:12
that to me isn’t what meditation is
48:14
that’s I’m sort of going in with a
48:17
preconception and attachment the
48:19
opposite of what I would call meditation
48:22
we understand meditation doesn’t look a
48:25
certain way other than allowing what’s
48:31
there to be there which means allowing
48:33
the thinking mind to to be there if it’s
48:36
there allowing the barking dog to be
48:41
there and the jackhammer of the
48:42
construction site to be there and
48:45
realize that they’re not outside of you
48:47
but they are all arising inside of a
48:50
field of consciousness that there isn’t
48:54
a person meditating in the meditation
48:58
experience in the meditation experience
49:01
you say where is the body be present
49:04
with the experience not with a thought
49:09
that tells you what the experiences so
49:12
if the eyes are closed and the body
49:15
isn’t moving there is no experience of a
49:19
person meditating there might be a
49:25
residual self-image and then if we
49:28
recognize that that residual self-image
49:30
is essentially a thought telling you
49:32
what the experience is because of a
49:35
memory that is someone is sitting there
49:37
whereas if we’re really present with the
49:39
meditation experience what we find is
49:42
that the notion of an inside and an
49:46
outside can fall away the notion of the
49:51
sound being out there isn’t our
49:55
experience if we’re present with that
49:57
vast open space meaning you can become
50:02
aware of the space behind or actually
50:07
become aware with what we might call the
50:09
eyelids
50:11
and as you bring attention to what you
50:15
might call the back of the eyelid you
50:16
realize there’s this vast open space now
50:19
you can be present with the experience
50:21
itself it means you’ve switched out of
50:25
the mental image of the experience you
50:30
become present with what you call the
50:33
back of the eyelids and then you realize
50:35
that’s on the back of the eyelids I
50:36
don’t know that there are eyelids there
50:39
is just as vast open space and then
50:43
sounds arise in that space they have to
50:46
be within in the field of consciousness
50:48
any sound that is outside the field of
50:52
consciousness isn’t part of the
50:55
experience so if there is a sound
50:58
arising if there is an image arising
51:02
it’s within the field of consciousness
51:06
within what you are
51:15
from that perspective everything is
51:18
allowed to arise and fall as it does
51:30
and then if you open your eyes you might
51:34
realize that if there is a sound it’s
51:36
within the field of consciousness if an
51:39
object is there it’s within the field of
51:43
consciousness nothing is outside of the
51:47
field of consciousness because if it was
51:49
it wouldn’t be part of the experience
51:51
the body is also an object inside the
51:55
field of consciousness so this can allow
52:02
us to find this resting place outside of
52:06
thinking so when there’s a recognition
52:12
of suffering happening we might be able
52:16
to drop into this position of being not
52:21
the body but the field of consciousness
52:23
in which everything areas arise
52:25
including the body and the suffering and
52:28
if we drop into that place we might find
52:30
the suffering falls away especially if
52:34
we drop into that place and become aware
52:36
of all of the objects in this moment our
52:42
brain tends to be not so good at multi
52:46
functioning though often what is what
52:50
the brain is doing is thinking about the
52:53
past in the future and not really that
52:55
present with what’s here now so if we
52:58
flip that around and become interested
53:01
in what’s here what he is here now
53:03
because it is part of the momentary
53:05
experience all arising inside a field of
53:08
consciousness if it’s not inside the
53:12
field of consciousness it wouldn’t be
53:15
part of the experience and this field of
53:17
consciousness is that which is aware of
53:19
the momentary experience that we can
53:22
ground into and be that and so in coming
53:28
into the present moment seeing the full
53:30
experience as a an arising in the field
53:33
of consciousness we may find ourselves
53:37
dropping into this being
53:41
so then life becomes meditation open eye
53:46
meditation and we see that that
53:50
physician might be aided by a closed eye
53:54
meditation so I can’t say that
53:58
meditation is not helpful but don’t do
54:06
it if you don’t feel like it I would
54:15
like to know what is the participation
54:17
of the body in the Enlightenment process
54:20
is there something like get used to eat
54:24
or something changed for him for the
54:27
body or it’s completely separate what
54:31
what role does the body play in the
54:33
Enlightenment process is there I’m like
54:36
does it react to it does it react it
54:46
just if you clarify the question a
54:49
little bit for you when you enlightened
54:52
like in the process is there any change
54:55
in your body let’s first talk about this
55:04
question of enlightenment right yeah
55:06
because I don’t go around saying I’m
55:09
enlightened
55:10
yeah it’s a process the but the point is
55:14
that we have to first define what
55:17
enlightenment is as a concept – then say
55:21
do I have that or don’t I have that and
55:25
in this teaching the definition of
55:28
enlightenment is living as a human being
55:32
in daily life with the absence of
55:37
suffering in other words living as a
55:39
human being
55:40
daily life with continuous peace of mind
55:43
that’s the definition of liberation or
55:47
enlightenment in this teaching it’s not
55:51
saying anything about
55:56
special powers or states of oneness um
56:02
in practical terms after all of the
56:06
different processes realizations
56:08
insights which are going to be different
56:10
for different people in practical terms
56:12
what this teaching is saying is that
56:15
what is available is to continue to live
56:21
in life with peace of mind then I would
56:26
and I encourage and someone asked the
56:29
question yesterday I think it’s a great
56:30
question to ask someone who’s talking
56:34
whether they have what you would like
56:37
what you think you’re seeking and so in
56:41
in this teaching it’s it makes it very
56:42
clear that if we are seeking we should
56:45
ask this question of ourself what am I
56:47
really seeking and get an answer for
56:51
that question based on being a little
56:56
critical towards the question and not
56:59
settling for just someone’s answer say
57:05
I’ve been seeking for five years or one
57:08
year or 40 years it makes sense for me
57:11
to ask this question what am I really
57:12
seeking in practical terms because if we
57:17
just have an idea I’m seeking
57:18
enlightenment but then we have no real
57:20
idea what that is it’s not really a
57:24
great thing to be seeking because
57:25
basically we don’t know what we’re
57:27
seeking if that’s the case Ramesh said
57:31
that because he was a banker he was the
57:36
general manager of the Bank of India
57:38
when he retired at the age of 60 and
57:40
then he’s seeking took honor really
57:45
he said he had the time to seek and he
57:48
said he’d been going to gurus on
57:50
whatever for many years and because he
57:52
was a banker he said you can’t be a
57:54
banker for 40 years and not be practical
57:57
you lose your job if you’re not
57:59
practical as a banker and he was as
58:02
successful as a banker so he said I’m
58:03
going to take this practicality into the
58:05
seeking so he said what
58:06
really looking for for 40 years have
58:09
been seeking
58:09
I haven’t found answers and I haven’t
58:12
got satisfactory answers from gurus one
58:15
time when he asked a guru that he would
58:17
go to what will I have after
58:20
enlightenment that I don’t have before
58:22
and he said the Guru got angry he could
58:28
see this rage arising in the guru
58:31
because in that environment that’s not
58:34
the sort of question you ask a guru and
58:36
he said the only reason that his guru
58:39
didn’t get angry and this was a family
58:41
guru it wasn’t necessary data which was
58:44
one of his later clues is it the only
58:47
reason that guru didn’t get angry he saw
58:49
everyone else in the room was sort of
58:51
interested in the answer to that
58:52
question what will I have after
58:55
enlightenment that I don’t have before
58:56
and so instead of getting angry Ramesh’s
59:00
the guru gave an answer to the question
59:03
that you give when you’re not really
59:04
giving an answer he said you’ll know
59:08
when you’re enlightened
59:11
and so Ramesh sort of said what’s the
59:15
point of that answer no so he says
59:19
actually when he was teaching he said
59:21
please ask me this question because I
59:26
have a very good answer for you an
59:28
answer that I have after getting that
59:30
really useless answer I put my mind to
59:33
it and I went through as part of the
59:36
process finding out what is it that I’m
59:38
really looking for because if we do that
59:42
it makes sense that our seeking is going
59:44
to become focused and honed and I have
59:49
you know no reason when the seeking is
59:52
focused I don’t see any reason why this
59:54
can’t happen in quite a short period of
59:57
time
59:57
definitely not needing hundreds of
60:00
lifetimes the fact is that it might have
60:04
needed hundreds of lifetimes before
60:05
before we asked this question and make
60:07
it really practical and become focused
60:09
but if we find that focus happening then
60:12
actually the process should be very
60:14
efficient so at the beginning of these
60:19
teachings we say what we’re really
60:20
looking for so if we ask this question
60:22
of yours and then it which gives you an
60:24
answer but not an answer for you to
60:25
believe but something to sort of guide
60:29
your further contemplating about this
60:33
question
60:34
it suggests what we’re looking for is
60:36
the end of suffering that’s in practical
60:39
terms and that is peace of mind and
60:41
daily living and so that’s the suggested
60:46
answer but don’t believe it so then you
60:48
have to go to your own experience and
60:50
Ramesh would suggest in those times when
60:54
you can put your hand on your heart and
60:55
say in this moment I’m not happy look
61:03
and see what’s there and the suggestion
61:06
is you’ll find one of the five forms of
61:08
suffering and you’ll realize that
61:11
actually my unhappiness is this
61:14
suffering and then you’ll conclude okay
61:17
if that is the time I can put my hand on
61:20
my heart and from my own experiences I’m
61:22
not happy
61:24
then the suggestion once again in the
61:28
teaching which you might start to
61:29
observe is that actually happiness for
61:33
the human being which we can’t really
61:36
answer what is happiness because we
61:37
don’t have it right um but we can start
61:41
to deduct and say okay maybe happiness
61:43
for the human being is just the absence
61:45
of this unhappiness and as that starts
61:50
to become clearer so each time we feel
61:54
unhappy we look and we see that this
61:56
these different forms of one of the
61:58
different forms of so or several of the
61:59
forms of suffering are there that we
62:03
start to become clearer actually all I’m
62:05
really looking for in life is the end of
62:09
suffering especially when that suffering
62:11
starts to have gaps in it and we feel
62:17
the the relief from the different forms
62:21
of struggle with life then when it
62:25
starts to get longer we start to
62:28
appreciate how beautiful it is to be
62:31
able to live life without suffering and
62:33
then if we’re lucky this is one of the
62:35
reasons of the flip-flopping most people
62:37
really don’t like the flip-flopping
62:39
phase you know where you feel like
62:41
everything is sunk in and you got it and
62:44
you find yourself at peace with like
62:46
life even and in the next day you wake
62:49
up and you know something’s changed it’s
62:52
back the flop is back and one of the
62:56
benefits of the flop is so that it’s
62:58
sort of life like life sticking its foot
63:03
on your head so that you at some point
63:06
from your own experience when the flop
63:08
is there you exclaim from yourself
63:10
actually all I’m looking for is the end
63:13
of the flop and when you see what the
63:16
flop is it’s the resistance and the
63:18
suffering again right the reason why
63:20
that’s so important is so that we become
63:22
clear what you’re really looking for
63:24
because the deeply ingrained attachment
63:27
to outcomes doesn’t just fall away
63:30
easily so when we’re in the spiritual
63:32
seeking process
63:34
the attachment to outcomes kicks in and
63:37
we read all sorts of things nirvikalpa
63:40
samadhi the very highest of Samadhi
63:42
states right and not only that one but
63:46
there’s this many other different
63:48
Samadhi that you can have and the
63:51
immense ecstasy and bliss
63:54
the power of the universe will be yours
63:58
right these are some of the descriptions
64:00
of the spiritual search in some of the
64:05
scriptures and different teachings now
64:06
that doesn’t make it wrong it’s part of
64:08
different process for different people a
64:11
lot of people need a hook like spiritual
64:15
marketing to keep them interested right
64:18
so ecstasy and bliss is what you get at
64:22
the end of the search to keep you
64:23
interesting at some point the teachings
64:25
start saying well actually it’s very
64:27
ordinary and it’s peace that only gets
64:30
told to people once they are ready
64:32
essentially and so seeing this habit of
64:47
ours to be attached to outcomes and
64:49
seeing it even in the spiritual process
64:51
and seeing that that is an obstacle
64:53
because we’re continuing to wait for
64:55
something and furthermore that something
64:59
is an experience it’s the quality of it
65:04
is something added in and so this
65:09
realization that what I’m really looking
65:11
for is just the end of suffering peace
65:14
it’s profound it’s a really important
65:18
realization so the flop can be the way
65:21
life tells you you see I’ve been giving
65:23
you the flip which really didn’t give
65:26
you ecstasy and fantastic circumstance
65:29
the flip is you find yourself more or
65:31
less in the same position you were in
65:33
before and yet there is an ease of flow
65:35
with what happens and when someone
65:37
hasn’t left you any milk for your coffee
65:39
in the morning and you open the fridge
65:41
you sort of find there’s this attitude
65:43
towards the situation when she’s like
65:45
it’s okay like not
65:48
gray it’s not my preference but and we
65:51
might shout out hey why did you finish
65:53
the milk but internally there’s a peace
65:56
with that alright um and so that’s the
66:01
flip and then the flop happens and we
66:03
realize it’s just that peace internal
66:06
peace gone out the window so this is a
66:09
long way of answering your question but
66:11
having said that it doesn’t really
66:13
matter because frankly the this sort of
66:15
information is all part of the framework
66:17
that’s very important but I will come to
66:20
your question you might think he’s just
66:21
trying to dodge the question
66:27
so once we’ve become clear that
66:28
according to this teaching framework but
66:31
I’m speaking from my own personal
66:32
experience having gone through life for
66:36
a long time and that psychological
66:38
attitude to circumstance hasn’t arisen
66:41
that’s also important so the suggestion
66:47
is first be clear on what you’re looking
66:49
for and then ask someone who’s talking
66:51
we ask them what it is that they have
66:55
after enlightenment that they didn’t
66:56
have before and see if it’s an answer
67:00
that is what you’re really looking for
67:03
after having asked that question for
67:05
yourself
67:05
in practical terms because a lot of
67:08
people that are talking may not be able
67:10
to or may be talking about something
67:13
else so you want to qualify should I
67:17
spend the next three years following the
67:22
pointers put forward I need to make sure
67:25
upfront whether it’s worth following
67:27
those pointers so your question what is
67:29
the role of the body what are the
67:31
changes in the body as a result of this
67:33
process and contrary to the descriptions
67:37
given I would say enlightenment is all
67:38
about changes in the body mind organism
67:43
the liberation that ensues you could say
67:50
is not so much of the body mind organism
67:53
because there’s a falling away and so
67:57
the freedom or the peace is
68:01
mind created and the freedom of or the
68:05
peace is arresting in an aspect of the
68:08
human being that was covered up by all
68:11
the thinking and so that’s why often
68:14
we’re told that the process of
68:16
enlightenment or enlightenment has
68:18
nothing to do with the intellect for
68:20
example I think I think that’s nonsense
68:22
I understand why it’s said because we’re
68:24
so obsessed with thinking that we
68:27
sometimes need to be told
68:29
stop thinking you’re not gonna find the
68:31
answer there and what is being
68:34
encouraged is a stopping of the thinking
68:37
mind that is trying to get in get
68:39
something so some teachings will tell
68:42
you the process has nothing to do with
68:44
your intellect you can’t think your way
68:46
into freedom and it’s actually not true
68:51
but it’s very useful for some people at
68:54
some point the process is really about
68:56
hearing teachings reading teachings as
68:58
pointers that give you the right new
69:04
conditioning so when when you so you
69:07
have some teachers saying that they’re
69:09
not giving you a teaching they’re not a
69:11
teacher and there’s no teaching it’s
69:12
also nonsense in a way but I don’t mean
69:15
that they’re saying rubbish it’s that
69:18
it’s a very appropriate teaching because
69:20
the thinking mind is sort of saying well
69:22
if you’re giving me a teaching great
69:24
because now I’ve got all this knowledge
69:25
that I can use to get somewhere but even
69:31
when they’re telling you that there’s no
69:33
teacher and there’s no teaching who who
69:35
is receiving that information seeker and
69:39
it’s changing the way the makeup of the
69:42
seeker is in a way that is beneficial to
69:47
the owl to the change that is needed and
69:50
so in this process it is always the
69:57
makeup of the body and the mind that
70:00
changes and as the body and the mind
70:03
change and the body of mind is
70:06
essentially a vehicle an instrument
70:08
through which consciousness is
70:10
functioning and therefore the experience
70:11
is
70:13
a highly influenced by the nature of the
70:18
body-mind instrument and so when certain
70:22
shifts happen the shift feels like it
70:25
has nothing to do with the body mind
70:27
except the shift happens after the body
70:29
mind has been influenced significantly
70:32
by teachings and by contemplating and by
70:36
meditation all of that is bringing about
70:38
changes on the level of the body mind
70:40
and so then as the process is happening
70:45
where change is happening on the level
70:47
of the body mind what changes are
70:49
actually happening in the body mind
70:50
essentially it’s a falling away of
70:53
beliefs it’s a falling away of the way
70:57
the mind the brain functions in relation
71:00
to relative objects including thoughts
71:05
which are relative objects so this these
71:09
shifts that happen are essentially a
71:11
shift where the brain then starts to
71:14
relate to objects from a sort of a step
71:19
back and that stepping back tends to
71:23
happen when the brain realizes that
71:29
thinking for example is limited is is
71:31
relative and so it says what I can’t
71:34
believe what my thought says I have to
71:38
see the thought as an object when the
71:43
thought isn’t seen to be something
71:45
relative meaning something that can only
71:48
know so much let’s say and if the input
71:52
from the external world is which is also
71:56
limited
71:57
it’s the input from the external world
71:59
which allows the thought to come to
72:01
certain conclusions so once we see that
72:03
thinking is completely a completely
72:05
relative process done by a relative
72:08
instrument the brain is a it’s a machine
72:12
and instrument so it’s relative um once
72:16
the brain itself realizes that it is a
72:19
relative instrument and its outputs are
72:22
relative then the relationship to
72:26
objects including the objects of
72:28
perception which also are outputs of
72:31
cognition a scene from a perspective
72:38
which we could call witnessing whereas
72:41
before when all of the objects were
72:44
taken to be absolute
72:46
there wasn’t any distance from them
72:51
so the process effectively is the brain
72:56
starting to relate to the external world
73:00
which isn’t actually next term that’s an
73:01
internal arising it’s all part of
73:05
cognition starts to relate to all of
73:07
this as less absolute than it did before
73:13
relate to emotions as less absolute
73:16
feelings as less absolute thoughts as
73:18
less absolute what’s happening in the
73:21
flow of life as less absolute so that to
73:25
me is a shifting in the structure and
73:28
the way the brain functions and as
73:34
certain beliefs fall away especially the
73:38
significant ones of do ership and
73:40
attachment to outcome we realize that
73:42
there are loads of energy in the body
73:47
that have accumulated over time energy
73:53
that is based on having interpreted
73:56
events that happened in the past through
74:00
this belief that was in place at that
74:04
time belief of doer ship and attachment
74:06
to outcome which means let’s say a
74:09
girlfriend chose to be with someone else
74:13
so that’s a circumstance and the
74:16
circumstance was related to by the body
74:18
mind organism a particular way the
74:21
circumstance was seen to be an attack on
74:23
who I was the other guy and the
74:26
girlfriend was seen to be the
74:28
perpetrators the reason why this
74:29
happened and and or I was seen to be the
74:34
reason like I wasn’t good enough you
74:35
know that’s why she chose someone else
74:38
so however the circumstance was related
74:40
to attitudinally we see is based on this
74:43
belief in personal doership an
74:44
attachment to outcome so a load of
74:46
hatred towards the girlfriend or towards
74:48
the other guy or towards yourself arises
74:52
it becomes our experience at that point
74:54
in time it can’t be different because
74:55
that’s the way we were had our makeup
74:57
and that uncomfortableness that
75:02
uncomfortable feeling with life with the
75:04
other is so uncomfortable so the body
75:08
eventually figures out a way of
75:11
improving the situation and the best it
75:16
has at certain points in our life of
75:19
improving the situation is suppressing
75:22
the feelings and so that load of energy
75:26
is essentially unprocessed and it means
75:29
that we have loads of energy that
75:32
include in them they are where the
75:36
belief in do ship and attachment to
75:37
outcome reside so as we start seeing
75:40
intellectually that life is a happening
75:45
and that the human being is part and
75:48
parcel of life that we have been grown
75:50
by life and that we’ve been designed by
75:52
life and that all of these circumstances
75:54
human relationship etc is all the play
75:58
of life happening exactly as it’s
76:00
destined to happen it’s not personal
76:02
we’re on a ride we’re on we’re
76:05
experiencing the movie of life that has
76:09
been according to the concept that
76:11
Ramesh put forward life all happened in
76:14
an instant from beginning to end it was
76:17
a creation that came into existence and
76:21
the movie has been written directed
76:26
acted and it’s in the can and so
76:29
whatever we say in each moment is
76:32
exactly what’s destined so whatever
76:34
event happens in each moment is what’s
76:36
destined it’s not personal so as we
76:39
start to see life more and more this way
76:43
following the pointers that are pointing
76:45
and then we start to see I not the doer
76:48
I’m an instrument through which life is
76:51
functioning the
76:51
there is an instrument through which
76:53
life is functioning and all of the
76:55
events that happen are part of the
76:58
creation of life so as that’s happened
77:01
intellectually a belief changes and it
77:04
starts to fall away and as that falls
77:07
away a whole lot of energetic systems
77:10
start rewiring because there’s all of
77:12
these energy packets in the body based
77:14
on this belief so if the belief changes
77:17
on the intellectual level the change
77:19
that happens here starts happening in
77:22
all of these energy packets that are
77:24
based on that same belief structure so
77:28
then we can start feeling a lot of
77:30
energetic movement in the body it’s an
77:32
invitation it’s essentially everything
77:34
that has been suppressed now starting to
77:36
move in the system an opportunity for it
77:40
to come into the conscious from the
77:42
unconscious so when we appreciate that
77:49
feeling dropping into the body is a very
77:52
significant part of the process so one
77:55
part that we spoke about earlier on is
77:56
coming to witness from a place of not
77:59
being the body being the awareness that
78:02
is aware of everything that’s happening
78:04
that is part of this shift in the brain
78:09
of seeing things more relatively than we
78:12
did before seeing them as transitory
78:15
coming and going and relate starting to
78:21
have a different story about them that’s
78:23
one part of the process that part of the
78:26
process tends to take us out of the body
78:27
to an extent tends to take us to a
78:31
formless awareness witnessing
78:33
perspective that’s great but for as long
78:37
as the body contains these deeply
78:40
ingrained beliefs of personal doership
78:42
and attachment to outcome life
78:44
circumstance is going to continually
78:46
trigger those and we’ll find ourselves
78:49
dragged out of that perspective back
78:51
into a very involved position and what
78:57
we tend to do is want to go back into
78:59
this sort of formless awareness
79:02
witnessing because
79:03
when we do that the suffering can get
79:07
can dissolve can fall away what we fail
79:12
to realize is yes there’s a as an
79:15
improvement in coming to know sulfur’s
79:18
the form but we keep getting dragged out
79:20
of it and we then keep going back there
79:22
and then we keep getting dragged back in
79:24
then we and it becomes hard work and
79:27
maybe the message is not only do we need
79:29
to be able to go out and witness things
79:32
and personally but maybe the message is
79:34
you have to come back in and clear out
79:39
the body mind organism in order for
79:44
there to be a clarity on on several
79:47
levels so in the process there can be a
79:51
lot of energetic movement a lot of old
79:54
emotions coming up and there’s a time
79:57
and the place to actually really drop
80:01
into the body and feel that so if you
80:03
don’t have to do anything other than
80:05
allow it to arise because if the
80:09
understanding in present day starts to
80:13
become more in line with seeing life as
80:16
it really is
80:17
knowing yourself not as a separate
80:19
independent doer not needing outcomes to
80:23
be complete
80:24
once that understanding starts kicking
80:26
in these energies can come up they’ll
80:29
get expressed in the energy it’ll feel
80:34
like complete unenlightened because the
80:36
energy will be full of hatred full of
80:38
shame full of attachment and we need to
80:43
hear that it’s not unenlightened to
80:46
allow these unenlightened feelings to be
80:48
there to come out and if we can allow
80:52
them and understand it’s very much part
80:54
of the process of dissolving these
80:56
beliefs in personal do a ship and
80:58
attachment outcome they come up they get
81:00
expressed and because our understanding
81:03
is a certain way they essentially start
81:08
to dissolve if these energies start
81:12
coming up and we don’t have a new
81:14
understanding about how life is what the
81:18
human being is and why events turned out
81:20
this way why we acted a certain way why
81:22
the other acted a certain way and the
81:24
answer to that is because it was
81:25
destined because we were shaped that way
81:29
we were forced to think and to feel a
81:32
particular way based on our genes and
81:34
up-to-date-conditioning based on the
81:35
story of life if that hasn’t set in then
81:39
these energies come up and they can
81:41
actually reinforce the belief in Ducie
81:45
we feel the pain of the past event and
81:49
we say of course I hate them for what
81:50
they did so there’s a difference between
81:55
just expressing and a releasing of the
81:59
energy so once our attitude to daily
82:04
life in the present day starts to change
82:07
and what we find is left is the historic
82:12
load of doership from the past then it’s
82:15
just a matter of time for that to come
82:16
out and be atoned I saying they atoned
82:22
by our allowance of life now so there’s
82:31
some of the changes that happen in the
82:34
body mind organism and at the end of the
82:36
process which really doesn’t the process
82:38
doesn’t have an end the process has
82:40
there are phases to the process so you
82:44
can have a phase where suffering no
82:47
longer arises but there’s going to be a
82:50
continual continuing refining on until
82:54
death but a very significant phase in
82:58
fact to me all that’s really needed is
83:00
the end of suffering so at the end of
83:04
the process of all this stuff coming out
83:06
where we find I just don’t find myself
83:10
reacting to life not a personal
83:12
achievement it’s just like I’m impressed
83:14
though I’m surprised that this event
83:16
this circumstance happened and there was
83:18
no attitudinal resistance to it no
83:21
hatred towards the other no hatred
83:23
towards myself no expectation that it be
83:25
different
83:27
we are still the person at the end of
83:31
the process the body doesn’t dissolve so
83:35
we’re still the person living daily life
83:38
encountering circumstances still having
83:42
our good sides about bad bad points our
83:46
personality but a completely different
83:48
attitude to what’s happening so the
83:55
process doesn’t somehow dissolve the
83:58
body but it dissolves and beliefs that
84:01
have been ingrained in the body beliefs
84:05
that in this teaching we say dictate our
84:10
attitude to life and so what is the
84:14
attitude to life that leads to suffering
84:17
it’s an attitude of taking my actions
84:21
and the actions of the other as my doing
84:26
and they’re doing ie seeing me and the
84:30
other is a separate independent entity
84:31
that is in control of what they do and
84:34
then therefore when they do something
84:37
that hurts me and I say I I have to hate
84:39
you I’m sorry you hurt me you could have
84:42
and you should have done it differently
84:44
so that’s the attitude of do ership and
84:48
attachment to outcome and when those
84:51
beliefs fall away what we find is there
84:53
is a an attitude of the heart you could
84:56
say so it’s not an attitude from a new
84:59
belief system that says ah you’re not
85:01
the doer and I’m not the doer the new
85:05
attitude is actually just the absence of
85:08
the old attitude so that’s essentially
85:11
what changes
85:52
biological versus psychological
85:55
reactions you may have gathered that
86:03
there is a distinction that is made
86:06
between the flow of life and our
86:09
attitude to the flow of life and it
86:12
turns out that suffering is always a
86:14
result of our attitude to the flow of
86:17
life the flow of life really refers to
86:19
circumstance how the circumstance looks
86:23
so this is great news our suffering and
86:27
therefore our happiness is not
86:29
circumstantial but rather a result of
86:33
our attitude to the flow of life and so
86:38
we’ve introduced the notion of the
86:41
working mind and the thinking mind the
86:44
working mind is part of circumstance
86:47
part of the flow of life the thinking
86:50
mind is the functioning of the mind that
86:53
relates to our attitude of do ership and
86:58
attachment to outcome and so linked to
87:02
these distinctions of the flow of life
87:05
versus one’s attitude to the flow of
87:07
life linked to the working mind which is
87:12
part of the functioning of the body and
87:16
the thinking mind which is part of the
87:18
attitude to the flow of life is the
87:21
notion of biological reactions and
87:24
psychological reactions the biological
87:27
reaction which is based on our genes and
87:30
up-to-date-conditioning is that reaction
87:34
that is part of circumstance the
87:40
psychological reaction is the reaction
87:43
in the body which is also a result of
87:47
genes and up-to-date-conditioning so
87:49
both of them are effectively a result of
87:52
our genes and up-to-date-conditioning
87:53
which we were never in control of and in
87:57
each moment we have a specific make up
87:59
genes and up-to-date-conditioning
88:02
so we create a distinction between the
88:05
biological reaction and the
88:07
psychological reaction just so that we
88:11
can start to see in our own experience
88:14
in daily life what a biological reaction
88:19
is versus what the psychological
88:20
reaction is not to try and change it
88:23
because they’re both based on the same
88:25
principle genes and
88:26
up-to-date-conditioning however the
88:29
psychological reaction is based on a
88:32
particular type of
88:33
up-to-date-conditioning the
88:36
up-to-date-conditioning
88:38
which has put in place the belief in
88:42
doer ship and attachment to outcome and
88:45
as we see this what can happen is the
88:51
psychological reactions start to be seen
88:58
as psychological reactions now how to
89:03
distinguish between a biological
89:05
reaction and a psychological reaction
89:08
the word biological reaction can imply
89:12
that it’s just let’s say the muscles
89:15
moving and the heart pumping and so
89:21
there as part of our
89:22
up-to-date-conditioning we have
89:25
preferences preference is a part of the
89:28
biological structure and where there’s a
89:34
preference come from or there are some
89:38
preferences that are part of the
89:40
biological reaction for example we went
89:42
to dinner every Sunday at our family
89:45
home as we were growing up and we found
89:49
that we enjoyed that that is part of our
89:54
up-to-date-conditioning part of our
89:57
circumstance so it’s part of our
89:59
up-to-date-conditioning
90:00
and it forms part of our biological
90:03
makeup and
90:08
the reason for bringing this in is it
90:10
might seem like biological reactions and
90:15
our biological preferences I have
90:19
nothing to do with something like this
90:22
like the preference for having lunch
90:25
with our family on Sunday that might
90:28
seem like a psychological reaction the
90:31
psychological reaction is always our
90:34
attitude to the circumstance so if we
90:38
get a phone call that says our lunch on
90:42
Sunday with the family is cancelled
90:45
because it’s part of our biological
90:47
preference something we like there’s
90:50
going to be a biological pain so ah
90:53
that’s a shame I enjoy lunch with the
90:57
family on Sunday so that pain if it
91:01
arises is a biological preference or
91:03
it’s a result of our biological
91:05
preference and that pain is essentially
91:08
vertical it arises vertically in time
91:14
whereas suffering is if an attitude
91:19
kicks in and says no lunch can’t be
91:22
canceled on Sunday I was looking so
91:25
forward to it and it has to be there who
91:28
can I blame for this and now what’s
91:32
happened is an attachment to our
91:34
biological preference has kicked in an
91:37
attitude towards the biological
91:41
happening the biological reaction due to
91:45
the circumstance based on our biological
91:47
preference and now an attitude that can
91:51
extend horizontally in time kicks in so
91:55
that’s the difference between the
91:57
biological reaction in the moment
91:59
because of our biological preference and
92:02
the circumstance compared to the
92:05
psychological reaction of blame or
92:07
hatred or attachment to outcome so in
92:10
the same way from issues to point out
92:13
that sadness and anger are biological
92:17
reactions they happen according to the
92:19
circumstance
92:21
and our biological makeup and this was
92:25
always very hard for me to understand
92:27
like when I feel anger arising and I
92:32
felt into it I felt no that’s suffering
92:34
that’s not a biological reaction and he
92:38
kept asserting Roger anger is a
92:41
biological reaction it arises vertically
92:44
in time and it’s based on your genes and
92:48
up-to-date-conditioning part of your
92:51
biological makeup and I couldn’t
92:54
understand why he kept insisting but it
92:58
was a biological reaction because when I
93:00
felt it it felt like suffering and in
93:03
time as I saw it more and more clearly I
93:05
realized that I had an expectation but
93:08
things like anger would end as part of
93:12
the process of liberation and so when
93:15
anger arose which I didn’t appreciate as
93:18
a biological reaction in other words
93:20
something that was inevitably going to
93:22
be there what would arise with it is a
93:26
judgment of the anger a resistance of
93:30
the anger arising and so what I was
93:32
actually feeling wasn’t the biological
93:34
anger but the biological anger wrapped
93:36
in a judgment and resistance to it being
93:41
there and once I realized that anger
93:45
makes sense in certain circumstances it
93:49
doesn’t make sense to be pushed towards
93:53
the edge of a cliff let’s say by someone
93:57
who’s by a group of people and sit Zen
94:01
or stands in and get pushed off the
94:04
cliff it makes sense in that situation
94:08
to push back to move biologically to get
94:13
out of the way so that biological
94:17
movement is not a resistance on an
94:20
attitudinal level it could be a
94:22
resistance to the circumstance a
94:24
response to the circumstance so if
94:27
someone steps on my toe really hard
94:30
there’ll be a biological reaction to
94:32
that the biological reaction could
94:35
be pushing them off it could actually in
94:36
that moment be getting angry up and
94:39
shouting at them if it’s just a
94:44
biological reaction it will arise
94:45
vertically in time and then the story
94:50
about blaming the other for they did
94:54
having an expectation that life
94:56
shouldn’t have turned out that way that
94:58
story that normally runs horizontally in
95:01
time sometimes for years doesn’t arise
95:06
so this recognition of the fact that
95:11
biological reactions based on our genes
95:13
and up-to-date-conditioning but not the
95:15
up-to-date-conditioning which is do a
95:16
ship an attachment to outcome because
95:19
that up-to-date-conditioning influences
95:21
our psychological reaction so
95:24
understanding that the biological
95:26
reaction is going to be there and
95:29
sometimes that biological reaction is
95:31
going to be of pain so anger towards the
95:37
situation is painful sadness towards the
95:41
news that a friend has died for example
95:44
that sadness arising is part of the
95:46
biological reaction of the body and it’s
95:49
not going to feel pleasurable however
95:54
there’s a difference between the sadness
95:56
arising as a biological reaction and
95:59
then the psychological reaction of grief
96:02
for example that can extend for years in
96:07
time in the grief there is a sense of
96:11
bitterness in a way a sense that life is
96:14
now not complete because this has
96:16
happened that my happiness is no longer
96:19
available because this has happened
96:21
whereas in the face of just the pure
96:23
biological sadness there’s a sadness
96:26
that arises and yet there is a
96:29
connection to ourself that knows
96:33
actually this is part of the flow of
96:35
life and my completeness is unaffected
96:39
by this which doesn’t make us cold
96:41
because as part of the biological
96:43
reaction when we see the partner of the
96:46
friend that has died we might cry
96:48
with them part of the biological
96:51
reaction and yet we don’t feel that this
96:57
event is an attack on Who I am
97:12
it’s the psychological reactions to life
97:15
that can fall away as a result of our
97:20
up-to-date-conditioning changing how
97:24
does their up-to-date-conditioning
97:24
change the same way that it was put in
97:27
place life is always delivering new
97:30
conditioning and the new conditioning
97:32
becomes part of our up-to-date
97:33
conditioning and certain new
97:35
conditioning can sometimes radically
97:38
change our up-to-date-conditioning such
97:40
that a whole section of our old
97:43
up-to-date-conditioning the
97:45
psychological mind the thinking mind
97:48
that which is the basis on which all the
97:51
suffering arises gets dissolved it gets
97:54
dissolved because we see that my actions
97:57
in each moment are not my doing based on
98:01
the fact that I am a biological
98:04
instrument the human being is a
98:06
biological instrument designed by life
98:08
the sperm and the egg come together the
98:11
organism grows not something I
98:13
controlled part of the biological
98:16
intelligence of the organism whether I
98:19
have two arms or one arm as part of that
98:21
growing process whether my IQ is high or
98:24
low whether I like this or that is part
98:28
of my genetic structure and then the
98:32
genetic structure once it starts growing
98:34
is continually impacted by life and what
98:38
happens in life is part and parcel of
98:41
the structure in each moment so in this
98:45
moment I am exactly the way I am because
98:49
of my genes and up-to-date-conditioning
98:51
which is the cumulative effect of all of
98:54
the new conditioning delivered moment
98:56
after moment after moment this is
98:58
essentially a very simple explanation
99:01
that we may or may not get according to
99:05
our genes and up-to-date-conditioning in
99:06
this moment two factors that you and I
99:08
haven’t been in control of simple
99:11
explanation of why feeling guilt and
99:14
blame and pride happen they happen
99:21
because our genes and
99:21
up-to-date-conditioning are a certain
99:23
way they’re also an explanation
99:25
why when this is seen it no longer makes
99:29
sense for guilt and blame and pride to
99:31
arise because the other is seen as an
99:34
instrument I’m seen as an instrument
99:37
that can only function one way in each
99:38
situation so the idea I should have
99:43
acted differently maybe we can see that
99:47
that that attitude to the past I should
99:52
have acted differently is completely
99:54
based on a misconception of the dynamics
99:59
that bring about an action in a
100:01
particular moment how could I have acted
100:03
differently the circumstance was one way
100:06
my makeup was one way and the output of
100:10
those two two variables coming together
100:14
resulted in a specific outcome so then
100:17
we see my attitude to the past where the
100:21
past should be different I should have
100:23
acted differently is completely
100:25
fictitious completely based on a Mis
100:28
assessment of how life unfolds
100:31
that’s the collapsing if it happens of
100:35
the false identity the false idea of who
100:39
I am ie someone that has complete
100:43
volition over what happens through them
100:46
falling away of that and what falls away
100:48
with it is the load of guilt and blame

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