01-21-2019 Roger Castillo – what gets in the way of Knowing I Amness?

 

Transcript

00:24
you
00:31
today’s binding in I am aeration and the
00:36
subsequent integration that’s available
00:40
as far as I’m aware as far as my teacher
00:43
spoke about is not about no longer being
00:49
a person but rather recognizing what it
00:51
is to be a person in a more complete way
00:54
than life tends to allow us to up to a
01:01
certain point and then life itself
01:03
brings about changes brings about shifts
01:06
and allows us to recognize aspects of
01:10
ourself that were previously unseen
01:14
unknown so it is about coming to know
01:17
ourself to know myself
01:20
now I self more fully if we only know
01:24
ourself partially we can’t really say we
01:27
know ourselves so if we find an another
01:29
aspect of ourself that we didn’t know we
01:31
can then say on now I know myself and to
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the extent that we haven’t found the
01:44
gear simply because life hasn’t allowed
01:46
us to find it haven’t found this other
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gear from which we can live life a gear
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in which we are not in opposition with
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the flow of life the flow of life really
01:59
means circumstance so to the extent that
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we haven’t found this other gear we’re
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forced to live life through a stream of
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thought lens of thinking and that
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thinking includes in it essentially the
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limited idea we have of ourselves and
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that limited idea is includes the notion
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that I need more to be complete that the
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more that I need is to be found in the
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future and it’s to be found in the form
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of pleasure pleasure pleasure and
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circumstance looking a certain way so
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that’s part of the false idea we have
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about ourselves or the false knowing we
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have of our self as a human being
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and if life brings about a shift I am at
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my core doesn’t need anything more
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doesn’t need life to change from well
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life is always changing so it we realize
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ah I am right now if we connect and I
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don’t mean it as something that we have
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control over and we can achieve but if
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life brings about a connection a
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realization are dropping into being we
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come to know ourself in a way that’s
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very different
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we’re essentially we are safe from the
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old idea which was always attacked by
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circumstance though in circumstance was
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not in line with expectations as idea we
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had of our self basically saw that as an
04:02
attack on Who I am and had to resist
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life and that resistance is an
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uncomfortableness so the end of the
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resistance to life which is not a mental
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movement it’s actually just the falling
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away of a mental movement so the mental
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resistance just dissolves so it’s not
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something that we have to work very hard
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at and put a lot of effort into its
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natural once this other identity that is
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always insulted by life falls away then
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you know all the resistance falls away
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with it so that’s what can dissolve that
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is what is referred to as the ego now in
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this teaching it’s not referred to as
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the ego in this teaching the ego refers
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to what we are the human being so in
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this teaching we are the ego and the ego
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doesn’t die that P go doesn’t go
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anywhere so we don’t need to try and
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kill ourselves
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so in this teaching we are an ego and we
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either have a belief in personal doer
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ship an attachment to outcome which is
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the basis of this false idea of who we
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are so an ego with the belief in
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personal – of an attachment to outcome
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and as a result of life happening a
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certain way as a result of life
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impacting us a certain way new
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conditioning teachings are really just
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new conditioning coming in now bring
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about change and then we might find that
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we remain a person so we still are the
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ego but this belief in personal doership
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an attachment to outcome has fallen away
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has dissolved
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no longer makes sense primarily because
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we come in contact with this part of
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ourself that doesn’t need what the
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belief structure said it needed so at
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some point when recive know it strange
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set delivered accurate we know how to be
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complete
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I don’t need my loved ones to always
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understand me in order to be complete I
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don’t need a stranger to understand me
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in order to be complete
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we even find that if life circumstance
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brings about illness that is quite
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obviously going to kill us that this
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beingness this core of the human being
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is still there even in the face of that
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circumstance and so if we rest there
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which hopefully we’ve become accustomed
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to doing might even have become our home
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meaning we don’t move from there even
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while functioning and daily living now
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if we rest there even in the face of
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physical death there isn’t a problem for
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a very specific reason that I am now
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like I exist now the thinking mind has a
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problem sis but I might not exist
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tomorrow but our being doesn’t go there
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it’s more interested in the fact that
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but I am now
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so this is what referred to as the self
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emanating contentment from what we truly
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are so the fear of death falls away not
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because we know that we will never die
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that can be a useful pointer for us to
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recognize this aspect of the human being
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a pointer that says I was never born and
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I’ll never die what I am is formless
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awareness aware of everything that comes
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and goes and there is a quality timeless
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quality to that aspect of the human
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being but if you rest there and I’m
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talking as if a lot of you have a frame
09:03
of reference to what I’m talking about
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because I believe that to be the case
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that many people on the spiritual path
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have found this capacity to drop into
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being
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sometimes we carry a lot of concepts
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that have helped us drop into beam so
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for example the concept that says what
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you are will never was never born and
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will never die that what you are is
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absolute they’re very useful pointers
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but if you rest in your own being and
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find or look for the confirmation of
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some of those pointers you actually find
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actually my beingness doesn’t tell me
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doesn’t confirm a lot of what’s in these
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concepts and hopefully we see are they
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were just aids things that were needed
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in order to dissolve the thinking that
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was the veil to being but what we do
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know what is confirmed is I am I exist
10:19
not I is this saw that just drop into
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the formless sense of existence
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so miss nosaka data and Romana teaches
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that played an important role in the
10:47
path that I found myself going through
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and I know that the majority of people
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here have a strong resonance with Romana
10:58
and I’m sure that a large percentage
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also appreciate the teachings of
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nisargadatta and if we look at the core
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of their teachings Romanus is asked the
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question Who am I keep returning to this
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question Who am I and Nyssa god Arthas
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teaching focuses around I am thus his
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process was he met his teacher sila
11:31
ramesh wa maharaj and he was a bhakti
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devotional seeker and so to the
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devotional seeker the Guru is
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effectively an image of God and there is
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full devotion to the Guru in the bhakti
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path and so his guru said abide in I am
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that’s all that’s needed so because of
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his faith in the Guru that’s what he did
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he followed the instruction abide
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abiding in I am and the beauty of these
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two teachings to me why they’re so
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complimentary Ramana asked the question
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Who am I and it’s not really a question
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to which we have we get a written answer
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or a mental answer it’s not a question
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that we’re meant to respond to verbally
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it’s a question we get the answer to
12:35
when we rest in our being our I am this
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to know that to be the answer to the
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quiz the Elven is a good artist teaching
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I am and so I’d like to talk a little
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bit about what gets in the way of this
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resting in being and if we talk about
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what gets in the way we might find that
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when that is recognized when that which
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gets in the way
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is in the way and it seemed then they’re
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seeing that one knowing what gets in the
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way having an intellectual explanation
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and then actually experiencing it for
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ourself we can say well when that’s
13:40
there I’m definitely not connected to
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being so knowing what gets in the way
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can allow a cutting off to happen or a
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movement to happen a spontaneous
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movement that drops out of that which is
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the obstacle
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yeah so I said I’ll talk about what gets
14:15
in the way because if we can
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intellectually understand our this is
14:20
the description description of why we’re
14:22
not connected to our being then this is
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how we have an intellectual
14:28
understanding of what the obstacle to
14:32
our connection to sources no connection
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to the core of the human then
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understanding what that is
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intellectually allows us to see it in
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action
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see the obstacle and knowing it’s the
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obstacle we might find a spontaneous
14:49
dropping out of that movement when we
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don’t know it as the obstacle it
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perpetuates because it’s a funny
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obstacle that tells us it’s actually
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helping us get what we want it’s a form
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of thought that and the thought itself
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believes it is going to get us where we
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need to go or as it turns out that that
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thought that tells us that it is one day
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going to get us where we need to be is
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the obstacle itself so what do you think
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the solution is
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yes Oh for ultimately for a stopping to
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happen stopping of that thinking all
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together but their thinking is what we
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refer to here as the thinking mind a
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certain type of thinking and I’m talking
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hopefully it’s received by the working
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mind so I’m just giving descriptions I’m
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not giving any prescriptions to anyone
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of something to achieve they’re just
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descriptions and when you hear that now
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the thinking mind here’s a description
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and especially if it’s a description
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about something good it automatically
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takes it as a prescription of something
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to achieve so this comment of mine that
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they say all of the pointers all of the
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words are just descriptions and not
16:25
prescriptions is useful because once
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again we might notice how we hear
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something and suddenly with turn
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deduction or a an incentive a motivation
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to go and achieve what has been
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described and so if we see that
16:41
happening we realize ah it’s being taken
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as a prescription and it was just a
16:46
description so let’s give an example of
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that
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what we’re really looking for whether we
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realize it or not is happiness for the
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human being in this life it’s a
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description what we’re looking for
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happiness for the human being in this
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life now that description alone not
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really helpful because there’s all sorts
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of words in there that we’re going to
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get thrown off by based on our
17:24
definition of those words so that’s an
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Enlightenment
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here’s another enlightenment is the end
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of suffering that’s a concept and it’s
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being delivered as a pointer or a
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description now the thinking mind the
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doer in us the one that thinks they’re
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in control which is part of the
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self-image that we have which is not in
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line with what we really are and is the
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Veil the obstacle to connecting to the
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part of our self that is already
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complete and content and therefore finds
18:00
itself at peace when there is a
18:02
connection to it
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the let’s see where the thinking mind
18:08
doesn’t take that as a description
18:11
enlightenment is the end of suffering it
18:14
says that sounds good for pleasure
18:18
something better than I have now let’s
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say and so I’m going to go and get it so
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it turns it into a prescription how do I
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get the end of suffering so when I talk
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about what we’re really looking for is
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happiness for the human being in this
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life I’ll specify it but the happiness
18:41
that is available the happiness that
18:43
we’re really looking for is not
18:46
happiness through outcomes not happiness
18:48
through pleasure that’s the that’s the
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happiness we think is available that’s
18:52
the happiness we’ve been seeking for
18:54
years and years happiness through
18:56
outcomes which is why we’re trying to
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put so much effort into controlling and
19:00
thinking about the past and the future
19:03
because we think that if I think about
19:06
it it’s actually going to turn out that
19:07
way
19:08
and that’s what I need in order to be
19:11
complete so the happiness I’m talking
19:13
about is not the happiness of adding
19:16
pleasure into our life but rather
19:19
happiness through peace of mind and
19:23
peace of mind is defined as the end of
19:28
suffering the falling away of an
19:32
uncomfortableness with oneself so these
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are in in this three minutes I’ve
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delivered a whole lot of concepts that
19:39
are actually just descriptions and if
19:42
they become part of the working mind if
19:45
they become received as pointers things
19:49
for which at which we can become aware
19:52
of dynamics pointing at dynamics that we
19:54
can actually become aware of and not
19:59
taken as instructions then the process
20:03
can happen very quickly to me there’s no
20:05
reason why this process can’t happen in
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one lifetime doesn’t need 300 lifetimes
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this one lifetime may have been a result
20:15
of a lot of things that came before that
20:17
actually a part of it happening in this
20:20
lifetime and doesn’t even have to take a
20:21
whole lifetime I think a few years of
20:24
focused seeking earnest seeking can
20:28
bring about the changes especially if we
20:31
are fortunate to have a whole bunch of
20:34
teachings that dovetail into each other
20:36
and support each other and if all of the
20:40
factors line up that we start really
20:41
hearing what they’re saying so let’s go
20:46
back to these descriptions enlightenment
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because this is part of the elaboration
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on what gets in the way so first what is
20:53
enlightenment it’s pretty important that
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we have a clear simple definition for
21:00
our intellect for the working mind and
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the working mind is hugely important in
21:07
this process when we look at what gets
21:12
in the way we’ll see its thinking that’s
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why teachings say don’t worry about
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thinking about trying to understand this
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because the problem the veil is thinking
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but what happens is if the working mind
21:26
isn’t equipped correctly then that
21:28
thinking can’t stop we can have every
21:31
intention of doing what a teaching you
21:34
know following a teaching that says just
21:35
stop thinking just be but the thinking
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is there because it’s based on certain
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ingrained beliefs that are believed to
21:47
be true and believed to be beneficial
21:49
and so it’s sort of like saying well if
21:53
someone’s aiming a gun at you just stay
21:56
there I think it doesn’t make sense to
21:58
us I think if we can get out of the way
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we’re going to get out of the way when
22:04
someone points a gun at us and so this
22:09
idea where we are told to just stop
22:11
thinking it doesn’t make sense to the
22:15
system if the if the thinking is deeply
22:18
ingrained and believed to be true and
22:19
helpful so that’s why receiving this
22:24
information is very important to give
22:26
the same making the same instrument that
22:30
is creating the problematic thinking
22:32
give it a reason to stop and that’s when
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the thinking that is failing our
22:43
connection to self can start getting
22:45
automatically cut off because a thought
22:48
from the working mine arises that
22:50
justice stopped well says I am I am can
22:54
just be a reminder to drop out of a
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thinking program that has been seen
23:00
because we investigated seemed to be the
23:05
problem and in the working mind just
23:07
kicks up with a few short reminders that
23:12
bring us back to who I am and pull us
23:15
out or at least pull attention out of
23:18
their thinking
23:21
if you don’t mind just using the
23:24
microphone for the sake of the recording
23:25
can we turn the air conditioning off or
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down I’m not entirely sure about the
23:32
definitions of working mind and thinking
23:34
mind and their connection how that goes
23:36
together
23:36
yes um the working mind is essentially
23:40
it’s just a conceptual label in a sense
23:44
that we’re giving to a part of our
23:47
thinking that is based on a very
23:50
specific set of beliefs the beliefs that
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I’ve highlighted as being the basis of
23:57
the false identity the false idea of who
24:00
we are and so those beliefs essentially
24:03
are the belief that what I am is a
24:06
separate independent entity in control
24:09
of everything that I think they feel and
24:11
do and therefore I see the other as a
24:15
separate independent entity in complete
24:18
control of everything that they think
24:19
feel say and do so that’s a belief an
24:24
idea a way of seeing ourselves that
24:28
according to this teaching concept is
24:31
out of line with what we actually are so
24:36
it’s an error that’s been programmed
24:39
into us by life I’ll talk about what I
24:42
mean by that so we didn’t create the
24:45
error but it’s there and the second half
24:50
of the basis of the thinking mind is
24:53
that not only am i a separate
24:55
independent entity primarily just a
24:57
physical entities how we tend to know
24:59
ourselves not only am I in control and
25:03
separate but I need certain things in
25:07
order to be complete in order for
25:09
happiness to be there I need people to
25:12
like me I need people to appreciated me
25:14
I need people not to deliver pain to me
25:17
and so any thinking that is stemming
25:22
from those ingrained beliefs is what in
25:26
this teaching is referred to as the
25:28
functioning of the thinking mind the
25:32
working mind on the other hand is
25:35
an output thought and feeling as well
25:40
because the thinking mind is not just
25:43
thought it can when the thought is
25:44
condensed and concentrated it arises is
25:48
feeling you know the feeling of hatred
25:50
towards on because of what they have
25:52
done that is taken to be an attack on
25:55
who you are based on that the false
25:58
belief of who we are and the working
26:01
mind is essentially part of the same
26:04
biological instrument the the person and
26:08
largely I’m talking about the brain but
26:10
it’s all interconnected
26:11
that isn’t based on these beliefs in
26:16
personal due ership and attachment to
26:17
outcome but it’s functional thinking
26:19
practical thinking so the idea what time
26:22
do I need to leave in order to get to
26:24
the airport in time given it’s a three
26:26
hour drive and I won’t ever get there
26:28
two hours before and a one hour buffer
26:30
in case the car breaks down you know all
26:32
of that that that’s thinking that is
26:35
functional practical it doesn’t actually
26:39
disturb a connection and a recognition
26:41
of what we are at our core so if we have
26:44
an idea that one day thinking of all
26:47
sorts is going to cease it’s just
26:50
another belief that is based on not
26:53
having investigated the human condition
26:57
or the human experience correctly which
27:01
also is not our fault we’re only able to
27:05
function according to our divine design
27:08
and I say divine I really mean as a
27:12
result of the mystery of life we’re an
27:15
output we’re a we’re an extrusion all
27:18
human beings are an extrusion out of
27:21
life not separate from it and we don’t
27:25
see that that’s why we think that we’re
27:27
a separate independent entity and we
27:29
believe we’re in control of whether we
27:32
perform well or not
27:37
so the working mind is the part of the
27:40
the earth are thinking that is
27:44
functional and doesn’t obscure a
27:46
connection into who we are and so the
27:49
the talk here is delivering new
27:51
conditioning hopefully to the working
27:54
mind that then becomes part of our
27:57
makeup and starts to function
28:00
automatically to cut off the thinking
28:03
mind and allow us to drop back into a
28:06
remembrance of who we are with where’s
28:16
the microphone but then the working mind
28:19
would still be fed by a false ideas of
28:23
Who I am even my planning is based on
28:26
this false idea right my fears of
28:28
missing the taxi that slider good so
28:32
when the thinking mind is present then
28:38
we find that even the practical the
28:42
practical calculations infused it’s not
28:47
so much that they mix it’s that both are
28:50
there so the fears are there the
28:54
attachment is there and the practical
28:57
working is there and so what is
28:59
important for us to see for ourselves so
29:03
all of these concepts are really
29:05
pointers for us to investigate our own
29:08
experience for our self meaning as we’re
29:12
planning will see the thinking and say
29:16
oh that’s the working mind for example
29:18
and if we find ourselves suffering then
29:22
there can be a recognition on that’s the
29:25
so the first one that’s the working mind
29:27
I don’t know if that’s what I said
29:28
that’s what I meant if we see ourselves
29:30
planning that’s though working mind and
29:32
then if we see the suffering which I’ll
29:34
talk more about how it looks or in what
29:36
forms it arises then we can see how it
29:38
is the thinking mind not with a
29:41
condemnation not with a insistence that
29:45
it’s not there but just a recognition of
29:47
it so it’s like being in science class
29:50
before
29:50
going out on the field trip and the
29:53
teacher is going through and saying okay
29:54
you might see a bird with blue blue
29:58
chest and the feathers sticking out of
30:02
its head and then the female version
30:05
that’sthat’s the male it’s very plain no
30:09
blue feathers and but much bigger and
30:12
there’s descriptions of these things and
30:14
then they might talk about certain
30:16
plants and give descriptions and the
30:18
mushrooms with red dots they’re such in
30:21
such a way and it’s poisonous to get all
30:24
these descriptions and then everyone say
30:27
okay thanks for all the descriptions but
30:29
really we want to get out there and
30:31
often um seekers don’t ever get out
30:35
there it’s like all these descriptions
30:37
and they turn into innocence beliefs and
30:42
that’s not the point of them the point
30:44
is that they are descriptions that allow
30:46
us to actually see and where’s the know
30:49
the field trip is our daily living you
30:52
know when we’re ordering food and or
30:55
waiting to get tea and coffee and temp
30:57
people pushing in front of you and get
30:59
served and you you know you’re there
31:01
that’s the that’s the field trip that’s
31:03
when we get to see the thinking mind
31:05
arise that’s when we get to see how this
31:07
is the flow of life sometimes pleasure
31:09
and sometimes pain so it actually once
31:12
the the working mind is properly
31:15
conditioned with a set of concepts that
31:18
explain life in a way that is we can
31:23
never know life it’s too complex but we
31:25
can know it relative to things like the
31:28
topic of happiness for the human being
31:30
so once the working mind is sufficiently
31:33
equipped life becomes fun in a way even
31:38
when seeking because we start seeing
31:41
what was a big jumbled mess of feelings
31:44
and thoughts and the flow of life and
31:47
they start to be separated out and an
31:51
objectivity comes in and then the
31:55
thinking of the thinking mind starts
31:57
getting cut off and it’s automatic just
32:00
as part of this protein project just
32:02
like at first the kids go out
32:04
to the field trip and there’s that that
32:06
one and they’re arguing no that was the
32:07
Wren no that was the female as the male
32:09
and they’re bit confused and then they
32:11
go back and they check the thing and
32:13
eventually once it’s been seen enough
32:18
they they don’t have any questions they
32:20
just see the bird and they know that’s
32:21
the blue Wren and they know that’s the
32:23
male and that’s the female it’s it’s
32:26
become known based on an investigation
32:29
for themselves so the understanding
32:30
shifts from being intellectual to being
32:34
much more none and as it becomes more
32:40
and more known it starts functioning
32:42
much more efficiently it starts having
32:45
an authority in the system in a sense to
32:48
cut off the working mind isn’t
32:51
interested in taking over from the
32:53
thinking mind at some some point the
32:57
working mind really realizes that
33:00
resting in our being is home and so once
33:08
it cuts off the thinking mind it’s happy
33:10
to to stop to be quiet it just does its
33:14
job and then stop for a while as we’re
33:19
contemplating the pointers and while the
33:23
working mind is equipping itself being
33:27
equipped and then the contemplation is
33:29
what is making the understanding even
33:32
stronger then there is a lot of thinking
33:34
and occasionally we actually the working
33:37
mind has to just recognize even it’s
33:39
getting tired thing and just says stop
33:41
just to remember to drop back into being
33:50
so when this agar data says abide in I
33:53
am he’s really saying abide in I am as
33:57
often as possible and what is abiding in
34:07
I am abiding in L AM is the stepping out
34:10
of the obsessive thinking of the
34:13
thinking mind and and remembering ah I
34:17
am and why does the obsessive thinking
34:26
of the thinking mind happen it happens
34:29
because it thinks it’s not it’s not
34:32
quite yet you know I will be if everyone
34:37
is just asks exactly the right questions
34:41
it’s it’s exactly still and yeah and
34:44
everything is circumstance is perfect
34:46
when my soulmate arrived when I get the
34:49
certain job I’m looking for then
34:52
everything will be okay the lead white
34:56
yet and we drop into connection terms
35:01
like I really I am it’s like what’s that
35:06
nonsense I am and when I say I am I’m
35:12
dropping into I am is isn’t where we
35:15
repeat in our mind I am it’s where we
35:21
know I am and we know this is what I’ve
35:25
been looking for just the peace the the
35:28
relief from the way of living where I
35:31
was in competition in constant struggle
35:34
with life that becomes experientially
35:39
known to be what a relief and if we can
35:45
exclaim based on our own experience one
35:48
day what I’m really looking for is just
35:51
the end of suffering which means there’s
35:55
been enough times of dropping into being
35:57
and seeing the contrast
35:59
and then being dragged out of being and
36:03
seeing the contrast and at some point
36:07
I’ll say I’m not looking for the
36:09
absolute or bliss or ecstasy or having
36:15
special powers or whatever concept of
36:20
enlightenment we might have picked up
36:22
along the way we go I’m just looking for
36:26
the end of suffering which is really
36:28
experientially very knowable to us
36:30
everyone’s had it many times in their
36:32
life but what happens is it comes and
36:35
then it goes and we find ourselves in
36:39
the thinking again and so when it’s
36:41
there for short periods we often don’t
36:43
really appreciate it but when it comes
36:47
and it starts being there for longer and
36:49
longer periods we realize what a relief
36:52
it is from the other way of living the
36:55
other way of functioning and so when on
36:59
the one hand teachings you know talk
37:01
about the brilliance and the stillness
37:03
and it thrived in very colorful terms
37:10
maybe it’s in you know once it wants
37:12
something impressive something more and
37:16
then at some point it starts saying
37:18
actually it’s very ordinary it’s very
37:20
simple it’s very plain there’s no effort
37:23
required it’s always being here it’s
37:28
just been covered up so you can start to
37:30
see but up by all this mental noise that
37:33
just starts to fall away and then we
37:36
effortlessly Lea here we can make it
37:41
difficult for ourselves if thinking
37:45
grabs on to certain concepts and
37:50
perpetuates the thinking mind
38:23
so I really didn’t got it how the
38:26
working mind can help you to get out of
38:29
the sinking mind then you have I mean
38:32
the working mind is then also a kind of
38:34
observer or part of your personality
38:38
which is not it but how so I didn’t got
38:43
it really so yes we often experience a
38:49
witnessing can happen at a certain time
38:52
in our where we witness thinking for
38:54
example and that witnessing is it feels
39:01
like it’s not really it’s not me as the
39:03
person doing it but it’s much more
39:05
impersonal and it’s synonymous with the
39:09
word awareness and often awareness is
39:11
referred to as you know awareness of
39:13
source or absolute what we really are
39:18
and when there’s a witnessing happening
39:21
there’s also insight not necessarily at
39:26
the same time that we have this I’m sure
39:29
many people are familiar with insights
39:31
happening and when it’s a slight a type
39:36
of thinking and insight and sometimes is
39:40
very quiet thinking because there’s the
39:42
witnessing and in that there is a
39:46
contemplation let’s say happening and
39:50
often we think that that is the
39:53
contemplating or the wisdom of awareness
39:54
and it’s not awareness doesn’t have
39:59
insights awareness doesn’t think but
40:04
because at the certain point we start
40:06
having insights that are not at all
40:08
what’s familiar to us we figure all that
40:10
must be um the wisdom or the awareness
40:14
of something that’s not me
40:18
whereas awareness and the working mind
40:23
and the thinking mind they’re never
40:26
really separate they’re never too
40:29
at some point they presenters to the
40:32
witnessing seems to be that which is
40:34
untouched by everything that arises in
40:37
it everything that comes and goes and
40:39
the pointers that allow for that shift
40:42
to happen are pointers that effectively
40:45
are conceptually describing as awareness
40:49
being different from what the body for
40:52
example and awareness being different
40:54
from all the objects that’s essentially
40:57
the pathway or the methodology that
40:59
brings about a shift that allows or in
41:03
in us in a certain phase of the show it
41:09
really does feel like oh what I am is
41:11
this and not that but that’s the
41:17
ultimate dualistic thinking in a way
41:21
when we look at it so we also see well
41:27
everything arises in that field of
41:29
awareness but the deeper and is not
41:34
separate from it but awareness is all
41:37
pervading so then we have to say well
41:39
actually this notion that I am this but
41:44
not that we need to transcend that and
41:48
go past it but as you know the
41:52
methodology let’s say of neti neti not
41:54
this not that what to know yourself you
41:57
have to know what you are not now that’s
41:59
not truth it’s a methodology that brings
42:02
about a shift so the working mind is
42:08
part of the witnessing is part of the
42:14
awareness of let’s say the awareness of
42:18
the thinking mind and so it has the
42:24
capacity also is part of the person
42:27
that’s why at the beginning of saying it
42:30
isn’t that we are not the person we we
42:35
are the person so I would say that it is
42:37
the person that has a certain type of
42:40
thinking which were calling the thinking
42:43
mind
42:43
and then it is the person who’s working
42:45
mind becomes equipped more and more
42:50
developed and the person also has an
42:54
aspect of awareness our experience of
42:57
life is all based on the fact that we
42:59
haven’t a faculty of awareness if or
43:03
consciousness so if you take
43:05
consciousness or awareness away from the
43:08
human being the whole thing collapses we
43:11
have no experience of life of the birds
43:14
and the trees and the people and what’s
43:16
being said so you know in English the
43:20
word consciousness if you get hit on the
43:22
head by baseball bat you lose
43:24
consciousness it’s like everything
43:27
that’s here including the sense of I I
43:30
am collapses when we lose consciousness
43:35
and then we regain consciousness and it
43:39
all comes back with consciousness so we
43:41
see consciousness is a very crucial
43:46
aspect of experience life experience but
43:49
whose consciousness is it at first we
43:54
need to be told it’s not the person’s
43:56
consciousness it’s part of the
43:59
methodology of realizing the
44:01
consciousness that’s always been there
44:02
but that hasn’t been realized at some
44:05
point we go well maybe it’s my
44:09
consciousness and maybe all the
44:11
separating is part of the conceptual
44:14
models of the teachings need to deliver
44:17
to make things clear so I’ve created a
44:20
conceptual distinction between the
44:22
thinking mind and a working mind if
44:24
someone actually goes around thinking
44:25
there actually is let’s say a thinking
44:29
mind and a working mind they’ve taken
44:32
the conceptual distinctions within a
44:35
teaching and believe them – absolutely
44:38
so if we hold them as a concept to show
44:41
are these two types of thinking but
44:44
let’s not believe that there’s let’s say
44:45
the brain is split into two brains for
44:48
example and so we really need to come
44:51
back and say well the personality is
44:53
part of who I am the working mind is
44:56
part of who I am
44:57
the awareness is part of who I am and
45:01
one part of myself can become aware of
45:04
another part of myself you know once
45:07
again it seems like I’m we get told that
45:12
no I won’t go there we’ll carry on hold
45:18
on I’m not sure if I once I go I just if
45:21
question was more how the working mind
45:25
can help me to get out of the thinking
45:27
mind hmm
45:28
well it just gets conditioned which is
45:31
what’s happening now so you don’t need
45:33
to worry about um anything putting any
45:36
extra effort into it
45:37
um and so let’s say my first bit of the
45:41
first conditioning new information
45:44
didn’t quite land in because maybe it
45:49
wasn’t quite explained yet because we
45:51
haven’t really gone through the whole
45:52
framework right and so I didn’t quite
45:54
land in a thought arises I don’t get
45:56
this so I ask a question which becomes
45:57
part of the so I give another
46:00
explanation hopefully to fill in some
46:02
gaps and that becomes part of the
46:05
deepening of the understanding of the
46:08
working mind and then it starts
46:10
functioning automatically just like you
46:13
have been conditioned already to know
46:15
what an Apple is so when you walk on the
46:17
street and you see an Apple you don’t
46:19
need to stop and say it’s an apple but
46:21
you know it’s an apple so when the
46:23
working mind is conditioned to
46:24
understand what the outputs of the
46:27
thinking mind are then it automatically
46:30
knows that that is suffering and if the
46:32
working mind knows that suffering is a
46:35
set of thinking based on an error and
46:38
that all of that thinking is basically
46:41
erroneous then we can see how the
46:44
working mind has been conditioned and it
46:48
understands why what the error is and
46:51
it’s starting to investigate life and to
46:55
confirm is it true that I am a separate
46:57
independent entity is it true that I
47:00
need pleasure pleasure pleasure in order
47:02
to be complete and so as it’s investing
47:06
it’s becoming more and more equipped so
47:09
at some point it’s like it just says
47:11
stop nonsense you know and if the
47:15
thinking mind doesn’t stop because it
47:17
too might be it is heavily conditioned
47:20
then the working mind knows well if I
47:23
start fighting the thinking of the
47:25
thinking mind that actually becomes an
47:28
action of the thinking mind that’s more
47:31
resistance to what is
47:32
so the working mind even understands at
47:34
some point there is going to be
47:35
suffering and it’s not going to get cut
47:38
off by the working mind so let it be if
47:42
possible but the we can let it be or not
47:46
let it be only based on our design based
47:50
on how we are in that particular moment
47:52
so I’ll talk a bit more about the the
47:57
concepts of doer ship and attachment and
48:00
how they look so starting to flesh out
48:05
what this thinking mind thinking
48:06
actually looks like which means the
48:09
working mind then has descriptions to
48:12
recognize it it starts cutting it off in
48:15
time and we start dropping into being
48:17
dropping into being means we start
48:19
getting more and more feedback about
48:20
what we really are which becomes useful
48:23
as part of the cutting off process so I
48:30
can say for myself I clearly mostly can
48:34
say let’s say the thinking mind is
48:36
thinking something then I can say oh
48:38
look okay what are you doing okay it’s
48:41
again a story or whatever so I can
48:43
clearly see that but often even if I can
48:48
see that I also can see Wow now you’re
48:51
getting attached with it and yeah I see
48:55
it but I’m still attached with it or
48:56
identified with it even if I can see it
48:59
so and I know biochemical in the brain
49:03
the thinking process is like an
49:06
addiction so I know about that so and
49:09
even if I know it it’s quite difficult
49:11
ooh it’s possible what it’s impossible
49:15
unless the whole dynamic has shifted
49:19
sufficiently for
49:22
stopping to happen so when you say you
49:25
know I see it but it doesn’t stop it for
49:27
example I agree we it can’t it can only
49:30
happen according to how the machinery or
49:35
is is set up so if the thinking mind is
49:39
still heavily if the beliefs are still
49:42
deep enough then they will carry on even
49:45
when it’s seen but as the process goes
49:47
on the the balance changes the thinking
49:55
mind gets weaker and weaker so even you
49:57
seeing it is weakening it even if it
50:01
doesn’t get cutted off in that moment
50:03
and not only is it weakening it just
50:05
maybe 1% the working mind in seeing it
50:09
is getting strengthened maybe 1% and so
50:12
you might go 3 months where it doesn’t
50:14
get cut off and we might think nothing’s
50:16
happening but it might have been
50:18
weakened 20% and this might have been
50:19
weakened strengthened 20% and then the
50:23
next day we find a cutting off happens
50:26
and then the day after cutting off
50:28
doesn’t happen it’s all really quite an
50:32
impersonal movement based on the design
50:35
of the human being at any point in time
50:37
so that’s really what will be we’ll talk
50:41
more about
50:51
thank you I believe I heard you said
50:57
that if you get hit by a baseball bat
51:00
you lose sense of I am is that what you
51:03
meant
51:04
well it depends how you’ve been hit by
51:06
the baseball that’s bad but if you lose
51:08
consciousness yeah yeah then yes there
51:13
is essentially the falling away like if
51:18
if we have certain beliefs about I am
51:20
like it remains all the time right then
51:24
that comment is going to sound like no
51:26
that’s wrong because nigga data has told
51:29
me that beingness is primal let’s say
51:32
right I’m saying now let’s start going
51:35
to our experience I don’t have a problem
51:37
with those teachings I’ll put them
51:38
forward if needed right but their
51:41
methodologies they’re not the truth
51:44
they’re there for reason so in a
51:47
teaching they will include warnings in
51:54
the teachings but they won’t include
51:57
them everywhere because it might
51:58
undermine the teaching they’ll just put
52:01
them here and there because then there’s
52:03
knowing when someone’s ripe and ready
52:05
for the warning because the other part
52:07
has done its job then that’s when
52:10
they’ll pick the warning up in the
52:11
teaching so teachings generally have
52:13
good warnings like don’t believe
52:15
anything I say no um and so in this
52:20
teaching I haven’t said it yet but I
52:22
said nearly in every thought it’s the
52:25
option what is being put forward is a
52:27
set of concepts now concepts and and so
52:32
I’d say whatever anyone has ever said in
52:35
regard to talking about the nature of
52:38
life for enlightenment is a concept so
52:42
if someone says the absolute is
52:47
awareness or awareness is the absolute
52:50
that’s what you are it’s a concept
52:54
concept means a description or a
52:59
a theory or like the Apple is red now
53:04
the concept is for every concept is a
53:08
counter concept this is a very important
53:11
point for a working mind to start
53:14
realizing nature of thinking thinking is
53:17
relative and one of the big problems is
53:21
that we the the thinking mind is all
53:25
thinking and it makes the mistake of
53:28
relating to the relative as absolute so
53:34
in this teaching is there anything that
53:35
anyone has ever said anything I say is a
53:37
concept the only truth in the
53:40
manifestation is the impersonal sense of
53:42
I am even that’s a concept but the
53:48
concepts in this teaching even though
53:50
they’re concepts concepts doesn’t mean
53:51
they’re not worth anything we build
53:53
houses on concepts on theories we
53:56
understand physics on because of the
53:59
concepts now the gravity itself is not
54:02
the concept gravity is but the concept
54:07
of gravity the the theory of gravity is
54:09
an explanation of it so we need to see
54:13
the difference between the concept of
54:16
gravity and gravity itself and not
54:19
believe the concept as gravity so the
54:21
teachings they don’t mistake the
54:23
finger-pointing for the moon as the moon
54:26
these are the little warnings and the
54:30
teachings and until it becomes clear
54:33
week so don’t really know what it means
54:36
sometimes so we go to our experience to
54:43
verify what we can and that that’s why
54:45
this teachings is okay I’m not
54:46
necessarily going to only talk from the
54:48
top-down perspective which is very valid
54:51
but the problem is it’s often not
54:54
experience that we can use to verify
54:57
certain things so if we talk from bottom
55:01
up if we talk from the perspective of
55:03
practical daily living it starts giving
55:06
us something that we can start
55:07
confirming for ourselves and so all of
55:09
the concepts are completely relevant
55:11
to this topic of happiness in daily
55:13
living peace of mind essentially for the
55:16
human being peace of mind and daily
55:19
living unbroken peace of mind and I
55:22
speak from my own experience of peace of
55:27
mind and daily living which is a result
55:30
of the suffering that used to arise no
55:34
longer arising because the beliefs on
55:37
which the suffering arose have been
55:40
dissolved and at some point I had to
55:42
come across and find a lot of the
55:43
spiritual teachings a lot of the
55:45
pointers had become beliefs that lack of
55:49
their my teacher ramesh was also
55:52
providing a teaching like this which is
55:54
very applicable after awakening to
55:57
refine the awakened experience to create
56:01
a deliverance from awakening to
56:04
liberation the Scriptures tell us don’t
56:06
mistake understanding for Awakening or
56:09
realization and don’t mistake awakening
56:12
or realization for liberation so it’s
56:16
very important for us to recognize
56:19
certain things that we haven’t seen
56:22
before
56:22
they’re the awakenings and the
56:25
realizations and then there’s a process
56:26
after that of refining so my notion is
56:31
yes if we look at the experience the
56:33
sense of being falls away when we are
56:37
not conscious
56:43
who is not conscious that the when when
56:48
the personal consciousness experience so
56:51
what is the human being
56:52
put another these more concepts more
56:54
descriptions the human being is in
56:58
personal consciousness of source linked
57:02
to a particular body mind organism
57:04
functioning through that body mind
57:06
organism is personal consciousness so
57:09
let’s become aware of what our personal
57:11
consciousness because that’s essentially
57:12
the gateway where we can investigate the
57:15
nature of consciousness the nature of
57:16
experience so we need to come to up
57:19
personal consciousness experience what
57:21
what is our personal consciousness
57:22
experience it’s that which we are aware
57:25
of in this moment all we ever have is a
57:30
personal consciousness experience so you
57:34
aware of me and the birds and the trees
57:38
and the horns if they’re present so if
57:41
they’re not present the trees are not
57:43
part of the personal consciousness
57:45
experience so essentially we can say
57:47
that the momentary experience is our
57:52
personal consciousness experience and
57:54
the whole the whole world as we
57:59
experience it so I’m not talking about
58:00
the theoretical world which includes you
58:03
know Australia and England I’m talking
58:05
about the world as it presents here all
58:07
arises and is contained within our
58:10
personal consciousness experience but to
58:13
me it just feels like if you get hit by
58:16
a baseball bat
58:17
what CSIS is the experience but not the
58:23
consciousness of being because that’s
58:27
not affected by a baseball bat
58:29
is it you see but now we go into theory
58:32
in a way so um and I say this
58:36
respectfully I don’t mean to be I just
58:38
not gonna take it personal no because I
58:40
remember being on the other side where
58:43
Ramesh is sitting here I’m saying you
58:45
know but um you know for example what
58:47
are you saying that awareness falls away
58:50
in deep sleep right that’s one of the
58:52
concepts in this teaching that Oh deep
58:56
sleep
58:57
is the falling away of the personal
59:00
consciousness experience and I was did
59:03
saying no Ramesh awareness doesn’t fall
59:05
away in deep sleep awareness pervades
59:08
all the three states right now that’s
59:12
that’s theory in a sense I think that’s
59:16
what we’ve come to believe because we’ve
59:18
been told that now we can
59:22
having said that like we can become
59:24
aware of awareness as an ever-present
59:28
component in the waking state we can
59:33
also become aware of awareness as an
59:36
ever-present component in the dream
59:37
state because essentially the personal
59:41
consciousness experience there is a
59:43
personal consciousness experience here
59:45
all of this and then when we go from the
59:50
waking state into the dream state
59:51
effectively whatever is arising in the
59:53
dream we could say is our personal
59:55
consciousness experience and awareness
59:58
has to be there in order for that to be
60:00
seen now in deep sleep now I’ve had like
60:05
I can say there is the awareness of
60:09
being asleep not only awareness of
60:12
dreaming when dreams are happening so
60:17
it’s known that all experience requires
60:20
awareness in order for experience to be
60:22
there and it’s known then when we do the
60:26
investigation that dream is really when
60:28
we have a night dream it’s no different
60:30
from this it’s just a different set of
60:32
content you know our experience in you
60:36
know in awareness and so if there is
60:38
awareness ever-present in the waking
60:42
state there will be awareness
60:44
ever-present in dream state and there is
60:50
the possibility of being aware of
60:52
sleeping where there is no dream but to
60:56
me that’s not deep sleep so there can be
61:00
an awareness of sleeping where there is
61:03
just a sense of awareness presence very
61:10
so no person obviously no no sense of
61:13
being Roger or whatever so I say that’s
61:16
still a personal consciousness
61:17
experience but then deep sleep is the
61:22
falling away of the sense of presence
61:27
which if you listen to some teachings
61:30
say no that doesn’t happen and but it’s
61:34
a matter of going to your own experience
61:36
and even more instead of us getting too
61:42
caught up about whether there is or
61:44
isn’t presence in deep sleep we say what
61:47
is the purpose of that concept
61:49
ramana’s concept that there is waking
61:54
dream and deep sleep and then there is a
61:57
fourth state that is which is aware of
61:59
the first three states described the
62:02
purpose of that concept is for us to
62:03
become aware of that which is aware to
62:12
to know that which is aware of the three
62:15
states and we become aware of that in
62:19
the waking state so it’s good enough for
62:23
us to say that in my experience so in
62:28
anesthesia if you go for a operation
62:31
that is the equivalent of deep sleep
62:33
according to my concept the sense of
62:36
awareness and beingness collapses so at
62:40
that stage there is no personal
62:42
consciousness experience effectively the
62:44
consciousness of source is not in that
62:47
moment functioning through Rogers body
62:49
or what’s your name Adrian or Adrian’s
62:52
body so come to the Adrienne’s personal
62:56
consciousness experience of which I am
62:58
part of your experience we become
63:02
present with this investigate this and
63:04
that’s where we start to really bump
63:09
into those things that maybe we haven’t
63:13
bumped into and that’s I’m assuming you
63:17
are you familiar with awareness in the
63:19
waking State yeah
63:22
so that’s actually enough because what
63:27
are we in practical terms what are we
63:29
looking for yes for the human being in
63:33
this life not happiness in deep sleep
63:35
right there’s no question about
63:37
happiness in deep sleep because no
63:38
suffering arises so we’re looking for
63:42
happiness in in the waking state and to
63:47
come to know the core of the human being
63:50
and for the thinking mind to start
63:53
getting weakened and stopped is the
63:55
happiness available in the in the waking
63:58
state what is curious is that even
64:05
though when I’m in deep sleep I don’t
64:07
feel that I am that’s true I don’t
64:11
because you don’t think so it’s not oh I
64:13
am when you’re in deep sleep but if
64:16
someone calls your name you wake up so
64:19
there’s this impersonal consciousness
64:27
that’s not going through the blinking
64:30
mind what happens when you don’t wake up
64:38
you mean when you’re dead no when
64:41
someone calls your name and you remain
64:43
asleep when the alarm goes off and you
64:45
remain asleep so what if the times we
64:48
wake up is when personal consciousness
64:51
has connected to the body again and then
64:54
there is personal consciousness
65:01
at the point when we wake up it’s not
65:03
deep sleep right so there isn’t personal
65:05
consciousness there so we can conclude
65:10
that we’re not in control of when
65:15
consciousness links to the body and when
65:17
it doesn’t so I would agree with you
65:21
when someone calls our name and we wake
65:24
up it’s because consciousness is then
65:28
functioning through the body again the
65:31
assertion or the assumption that it must
65:35
have been there in order to wake up or
65:41
in order to come back I think it must
65:44
have been they’re aware of something is
65:48
it’s a maybe because we can say well
65:52
maybe consciousness linked to the body
65:55
again and that’s why we woke up that
65:59
coincided with the person speaking to us
66:03
I think that’s enough because it’s not
66:09
really maybe practical to focus on that
66:12
is yeah look I think you’re what you’re
66:15
saying is very mature in a sense because
66:17
we could easily get into a debate about
66:19
this and it’s not really that relevant
66:24
so to become aware of the aspects in the
66:29
waking State that are relevant is what’s
66:31
most important and talking about the
66:32
deep sleep state can sometimes help us
66:35
do that it often gets us caught up in
66:38
theoretical things that are not so
66:40
important thank you and on that point if
66:45
you go to the i am-ness the beingness
66:48
does it tell you you know that it
66:51
doesn’t tell you where it comes from
66:53
when we’re just resting in our being and
66:57
and there’s a lot of concepts even what
67:01
I’ve just put forward I said the human
67:02
being is impersonal consciousness of
67:04
source linked to a particular body-mind
67:07
functioning as personal consciousness
67:10
frankly I don’t know if it’s impersonal
67:12
fine it’s a concept that helps us become
67:15
aware of what’s important to become
67:17
aware of because when we rest in our
67:21
being it doesn’t tell me of where it
67:24
comes from but it’s enough to know to
67:27
have bumped into the being is really
67:29
important to get hung up on where it
67:31
comes from then it’s maybe not so
67:33
important
67:41
so on that note and it was following on
67:44
from this we’d better talk about some of
67:47
the practical things that we haven’t
67:49
spoken about that are useful to to
67:54
really talk about and for us to to see
68:00
and they include this we’ll start with
68:04
this question so what am I really
68:06
looking for in life this is a question
68:08
that is worth asking if we’re seeking if
68:12
we’re travelling around the world and
68:13
maybe been seeking for 10 or 20 years
68:16
even often if that’s the case frustrated
68:21
why haven’t I found what I’m looking for
68:25
why can’t I drop into being why am I
68:29
still suffering so Ramesh used to
68:34
receive people and he’d have a
68:35
conversation with them and he started to
68:38
see that the seeking often isn’t
68:41
practical it can get very theoretical
68:46
theoretical doesn’t mean that the theory
68:48
is not right but it just means it’s not
68:51
going to be what we can confirm in
68:53
practice
68:54
so if physics Einstein who is interested
68:58
in quantum physics is known as a
69:01
theoretical physicist and often what
69:06
happens is we come to know about quantum
69:08
physics versus mechanical physics and we
69:10
then say our quantum physics is real and
69:12
mechanical physics is not real which is
69:15
not right they they coexist together
69:17
they both exist they are two sides of a
69:23
coin mechanical physics isn’t illusory
69:26
and quantum physics real they they both
69:29
exist but quantum physics is never going
69:32
to be how we experience life we’re
69:34
always going to experience life on a
69:35
practical level which is mechanical
69:38
physics and so if we talk about quantum
69:41
physics we can’t necessarily experience
69:46
it be with it here we can understand it
69:49
theoretically
69:52
and that can be supportive and so when I
69:55
say it’s theoretical it doesn’t make it
69:57
wrong it actually to understand
70:00
something theoretically can be to
70:02
understand what is but let’s not ignore
70:05
the the practical which is also what is
70:09
and definitely not life is not our one
70:14
half is illusory and one half is real
70:16
right once again that would be dualistic
70:19
separation into its one so what are we
70:27
really looking for in practical terms
70:28
and the answer that is put forward as
70:32
part of the conceptual framework is what
70:35
we’re looking for whether we realize it
70:36
or not is happiness for the human being
70:38
and that happiness turns out to be not
70:42
happiness through outcomes not happiness
70:45
of adding something but happiness
70:48
through peace of mind and peace of mind
70:51
is simply the absence of something not
70:55
the presence of something the absence of
70:58
suffering which is an uncomfortableness
71:00
with oneself
71:01
and when we look at it specifically it’s
71:05
an uncomfortableness in the form of
71:06
thought and in its condensed form
71:10
thought is feeling and one of the very
71:16
very important concept here is that our
71:18
suffering is always attitudinal to
71:22
circumstance and never circumstantial so
71:28
what is this suffering that can end that
71:33
leads to what we could say a more
71:36
natural state or what is there when the
71:38
suffering ends so in practical terms the
71:41
suffering arises in the form of guilt
71:43
blame pride worry and anxiety and
71:48
attachment and expectation it’s good
71:52
that we have five fingers very
71:54
convenient
71:55
um now under each of those there are
72:01
subcategories of guilt and blame so
72:05
let’s take because often people have
72:07
been hearing the teaching for many years
72:08
sometimes on through YouTube and
72:11
what-have-you and then it just dawns on
72:13
them one day our guilt means lack of
72:16
self-worth like so let’s describe these
72:22
and blame means hatred
72:24
I mean blame doesn’t that guilt doesn’t
72:28
mean lack of self-worth but it
72:30
encompasses the feeling of lack of
72:32
self-worth and blame doesn’t just mean
72:34
hatred but it encompasses hatred so
72:39
blame is an attitude – so we’ll start
72:44
with guilt guilt is an attitude to
72:46
circumstance when the circumstance is
72:49
painful and the pain is delivered
72:52
because of an action or an outcome or an
72:55
outcome linked to an action that
72:57
happened through me a decision let’s say
73:00
that was made that led to a bad outcome
73:02
an outcome that was painful to me or to
73:05
someone I loved or even to a stranger
73:07
and guilt is the attitude to that
73:11
outcome that sees the outcome as my
73:15
doing something that I was as a separate
73:19
independent entity completely
73:21
responsible for and because it’s painful
73:25
because the outcome is not preferable we
73:30
see it as an attack on what I really
73:32
need which is pleasure pleasure pleasure
73:34
or good outcomes so seeing it the
73:38
outcome is an attack on what I need
73:40
seeing myself as the doer I then feel
73:43
like I’m not worthy I’m not good enough
73:46
like I’m guilty I’m the one that is
73:50
responsible for life turning out this
73:53
way blame is the same but instead of it
74:00
being an attitude towards the outcomes
74:03
from my actions it’s an attitude towards
74:06
the outcome of the action of someone
74:08
else
74:09
and outcome that has delivered pain to
74:12
me or pain to someone I love or even a
74:14
stranger I see that as an attack on our
74:17
completeness on our happiness I see them
74:20
as a separate independent entity the
74:22
doer and so then I say I hate you for
74:26
what you have done to hurt me or my fret
74:30
family or the stranger and pride is an
74:34
attitude towards an outcome that has
74:37
happened through me that is positive so
74:40
in same principle is guilt but instead
74:44
of a negative outcome in suppose balance
74:46
I look what I have achieved look what I
74:48
as the doer have achieved something
74:50
positive that’s going to add to Who I am
74:53
or who the other is so coming to see
74:58
that it’s always an attitude to an
75:00
outcome not the outcome itself the
75:04
outcome itself is either pleasure or
75:05
pain
75:06
it’s either positive or negative
75:13
so our suffering is always attitudinal
75:16
to circumstance this is great news
75:18
because if our suffering was
75:20
circumstantial itself then that’s the
75:25
pain plus another load on top of the
75:27
pain which is the attitudinal part the
75:30
suffering and so what we can be free
75:33
from is the attitudinal load we can’t be
75:36
free from the momentary circumstance
75:40
that doesn’t mean that if I’m giving you
75:41
a headache you can’t get up and leave
75:42
right and go outside but then you find
75:44
yourself in another circumstance that
75:46
might be even more painful so we’re not
75:49
in control of the outcomes so this this
75:52
is part of the conceptual framework
75:54
that’s being given to the working mind
75:57
simply to use it if you like it if you
76:03
don’t like what’s being said no problems
76:06
you know don’t don’t think about it the
76:10
thing is you’re not in control whether
76:12
you think about it or you don’t
76:13
if it becomes part of the system and
76:15
you’re outside you might find the
76:18
thoughts just arising anyway because now
76:20
the system is includes or doesn’t
76:23
include the new conditioning so this
76:28
guilt blame and pride is a huge load of
76:31
suffering and we’re carrying around a
76:34
load of suffering in the form of guilt
76:36
blame and pride from the past
76:38
a huge load so it’s based on the idea
76:42
that I needed things to be pleasure
76:44
pleasure pleasure in order for me to be
76:46
complete and that’s an attitude to the
76:49
outcome and the attitude that says I was
76:52
the one that controlled what happened
76:55
and the other is the one that controlled
76:57
what happened No so how do we undermine
76:59
how do we show that this belief in
77:01
personal doership
77:02
is not accurate meaning we’re not a
77:04
separate independent entity which is
77:07
what the self-identity believes
77:12
ourselves to be it’s a fiction the
77:18
concept the explanation in the teaching
77:20
says that the human being in any moment
77:24
is designed by
77:27
life–and is one way in that moment if
77:29
we can take a snapshot of the human
77:33
being that includes in a snapshot the
77:36
genetic makeup and all of the
77:39
conditioning that has been delivered to
77:41
that genetic makeup over time from the
77:43
time of conception up to now and so that
77:46
new conditioning that’s delivered each
77:48
moment it’s the accumulation of that is
77:51
what we call the up-to-date-conditioning
77:54
so the human being is a result of these
77:56
two factors the genes and
77:58
up-to-date-conditioning and those two
78:03
factors are two factors we’ve never been
78:05
in control of so if we take a snapshot
78:07
of ourself we are one way essentially a
78:10
really complex biological organism a
78:15
vehicle through which consciousness is
78:17
functioning and the vehicle has to
78:22
function in each moment according to its
78:25
design
78:26
now if the vehicles design includes
78:30
conditioning of the English language
78:34
then it makes sense that that body mind
78:37
organism will communicate and think in
78:39
English it simply can’t communicate in
78:44
air-conditioning and what we fail to
78:50
realize is this point that the human
78:52
being is very a very complex instrument
78:57
the instrument is always changing
78:59
because life is always delivering new
79:01
condition and the genetics so we’re
79:06
never the same from one moment to the
79:09
next but in one moment we’re only one
79:10
way the way that we are in that moment
79:12
and then we find ourselves in a
79:14
circumstance and the circumstance is
79:17
very complex but it’s only one way to
79:20
and so the combination of the complexity
79:25
of what we are which is unique in one
79:28
moment and the complexity of the moment
79:31
means that we will function one very
79:33
specific way the only way we can
79:36
function in that moment
79:39
according to our genes and
79:41
up-to-date-conditioning in the
79:42
circumstance we find ourself in none of
79:45
those factors have we ever been in
79:46
control of now this doesn’t necessarily
79:49
sound good to the thinking mind because
79:53
it’s an attack on what we believe
79:54
ourself to be I say it’s a concept that
79:59
describes what the human being is far
80:02
more accurately than what the thinking
80:04
mind has imagined take it or leave it if
80:10
it’s your destiny to say actually the
80:14
logic sounds reasonable I’m gonna think
80:16
about it I’m going to observe it and you
80:18
know as you walk down the street and a
80:21
dog approaches you or as you’re walking
80:23
up the mountain you come across a monkey
80:24
and you find that you’re very scared and
80:26
you remember I was attacked by a dog
80:28
when I was three years old and you can
80:31
see in your reaction that your fear as
80:35
opposed to the person next to you who’s
80:36
not afraid is specifically linked to
80:39
your genetics and your
80:42
up-to-date-conditioning which includes
80:44
the conditioning of the experience of
80:46
being attacked by dog and if you see
80:50
yourself functioning somewhat similarly
80:53
to your mother or your father you can
80:56
conclude it’s because the genetics may
80:59
be somewhat similar and I was exposed to
81:01
that conditioning when I was growing up
81:04
if you have certain political beliefs
81:07
and you stand up for those beliefs
81:10
wholeheartedly you might realize why I
81:12
have these beliefs because of my genes
81:14
and up-to-date-conditioning everything
81:17
that happens in the body both those
81:20
involuntary movements so we have no
81:23
problem looking at the pumping of the
81:25
heart and saying well it’s not my doing
81:27
it’s a result of you know the genetics
81:30
of the body that just function and then
81:34
something like thinking which is also
81:36
the output of a complex machine we
81:40
because of the way that our
81:42
up-to-date-conditioning is has been put
81:44
in place and we can talk probably in
81:46
another satsang about why
81:49
that happens but towards thinking we
81:52
said no that’s my doing like like as if
81:56
there’s a me that has some autonomy over
81:59
the thinking process so the thinking
82:02
process is very complex and it happens
82:04
through us so on one regard we’ll say
82:06
yes it’s my thought as in Roger it’s a
82:11
thought Roger has but then I see what is
82:13
Roger Roger is a biological instrument
82:16
that’s forced to function exactly the
82:20
way that he functions where’s the
82:24
microphone okay so my question is yeah
82:32
my question is so who becomes happier
82:37
who become who becomes happy you say
82:40
happy the human being once happiness in
82:43
this life but it’s a human being is if
82:45
it is a big constantly moving responding
82:50
interactive dynamic thing that is
82:53
basically dying and a big pileup of
82:58
likes and dislikes aversion and emotions
83:00
will that human being is the human being
83:04
that actually experience happiness or is
83:07
it transcending a human being condition
83:10
that brings happiness and then the
83:12
question is what does that which
83:15
transcend the human being need happiness
83:17
right so you know is it even possible as
83:22
a human being to get the happiness and
83:24
then if not or what is it yeah so my
83:29
arms are very clear it is the human
83:30
being that experiences the happiness
83:33
which is specifically described as
83:35
happiness through peace of mind it’s the
83:37
human being that experiences that
83:39
happiness only when life changes the
83:42
human being such that certain functions
83:45
of the human being cease the thinking
83:48
mind and we find that that peace of mind
83:52
is not only a result of the ceasing of
83:55
the suffering thoughts that are
83:58
inherently in them
84:00
very uncomfortable it’s essentially
84:02
saying life is not giving
84:03
what I need so it’s a feeling of
84:06
uncomfortableness with oneself it’s not
84:08
only the falling away of that but it’s
84:10
also a connecting to what we could say
84:12
is a transcendent aspect of the human
84:14
being but I don’t perpetuate the concept
84:24
that says that’s not who we are
84:25
I’d say that’s an aspect of who we are
84:28
and so if we dive into that aspect in
84:31
meditation or on and the daily life
84:35
experience falls away which it you know
84:37
for 20 minutes or half an hour or
84:39
however long the meditation is where the
84:43
senses fall away the experience of being
84:46
a body falls away we really the personal
84:50
consciousness experience which is a very
84:52
impersonal personal consciousness
84:54
experience in the meditation is one that
85:00
doesn’t include any feedback of being a
85:02
person and to me that’s just us diving
85:05
into the core of the human so not
85:09
separate from the commune of Court and
85:11
we come to see the mystery of what the
85:13
human being is at its core and so the
85:17
happiness is about connecting to a
85:20
transcendent formless unexplainable
85:26
aspect but why do we now need to call it
85:32
not part of the human not part of the
85:35
person and so the reason why that
85:38
happens is because a teaching will see
85:40
that a person believes themselves to be
85:46
the separate identity and believes
85:48
themselves to need all of these outcomes
85:50
and so then it says the problem is the
85:53
person where what they’re really talking
85:54
about is the way that person is forced
85:58
to function when they have a certain
86:00
design so it says it’s really saying
86:02
instead of pointing at the thinking mind
86:05
and the working mind which at some point
86:07
it is not appropriate a much broader
86:12
explanation can be much more useful to
86:14
just say leave your
86:16
personhood are behind its the personhood
86:19
that is the problem you are not the
86:22
person it’s essentially getting us to
86:26
leave the thinking mind behind when
86:29
that’s done its job we realize wow I am
86:31
still a person so we can see great
86:34
teachers
86:35
Mooji or any teacher you respect and
86:39
value Ramana he still carried on living
86:41
as a person until the body died going
86:43
through getting angry at the cooks for
86:45
not chopping the vegetables correctly
86:47
getting annoyed at his attendant for
86:50
pestering him to take his asthma
86:52
medication from sometime and also I
86:55
pointed out an annoyance which is just a
86:59
biological reaction and at the same time
87:01
also being very compassionate answering
87:03
people’s questions responding to his
87:05
name you know Bhagwan and he would turn
87:09
yes how can I help you so it continues
87:12
as a person and yet the teachings will
87:16
sometimes put the personhood aside
87:18
because the awakening that needs to
87:20
happen is to this transcendent component
87:23
or aspect of the person so does this
87:29
core need to be happy it already is it
87:33
is happiness we could say so it doesn’t
87:35
need anything to change but when the
87:38
human being experiences the end of
87:41
suffering the human being knows it to be
87:44
an optimal state from their experience
87:48
appoint so the question of whether some
87:52
absolute let’s say needed the happiness
87:55
I’d say theoretically everything is and
87:58
so everything is valid both the
88:00
suffering and the absence of suffering
88:04
both pleasure and pain is contained in
88:08
the creation so it’s valid but from the
88:11
personal point of view we say yes it’s
88:14
much more optimal to find ourselves
88:17
living in life essentially in flow with
88:19
life not in opposition to it meaning the
88:24
end of suffering and we say well I used
88:26
to be unhappy
88:28
and now I’m happy so a lot of teachers
88:36
say some teachers say that the person
88:38
goes out to find the realization
88:40
happiness and long before it happens
88:43
that person is gone yes and only to the
88:47
unrealized being as it looked like the
88:49
person is still acting but from the
88:51
person’s point of view there is no
88:53
longer a person brilliant so what
88:55
they’re talking about and when they’re
88:57
referring to the person once again is
88:58
the aspect of functioning that we
89:02
essentially only know ourself as which
89:05
is this doer ship and attachment to
89:08
outcome and so when they say that person
89:11
has gone on in my interpretation and so
89:14
I I mean I sometimes read other
89:16
teachings and it’s so clear to me um
89:19
from this essentially side what they’re
89:22
really saying is they’re saying that the
89:24
in haste in incessant thinking mind that
89:28
says what I am is the one that is making
89:30
everything happen what I am is the one
89:33
that needs this and listeners that’s
89:34
dissolved
89:35
so there’s a big spaciousness inside so
89:38
what has really fallen away is the
89:41
person believing themselves to be the
89:43
doer and then when we read so so many of
89:47
the texts and what’s core in his
89:48
teachings his life is a happening no one
89:51
is doing it so that’s what we mean by
89:54
the end of the belief in personal
89:56
doership
89:56
it’s seen that when speaking is
89:59
happening speaking is happening through
90:01
me as a result of my makeup I can’t
90:04
possibly be done there’s no claiming
90:06
ownership over it and in the same case
90:09
the other is seen in the same light
90:11
there is no independent doer life – is
90:14
happening through everyone so from this
90:17
point of view the idea of being a
90:20
separate independent doer that has to
90:23
compete with the other has to see the
90:25
other as an enemy or a competitor or a
90:27
rival that falls away and then life is
90:31
allowed to happen and there’s a knowing
90:35
that the outcome not in my control so I
90:38
still will function biologically which
90:40
means
90:41
if I see that something in the moment is
90:45
not ideal biologically there will still
90:48
be a movement which is seen to be an
90:50
automatic functioning of the biological
90:51
intelligence to do whatever I can to
90:54
improve the situation but knowing that
90:57
the outcome is not in my control so
91:02
thank you for the comments they’re very
91:04
very appropriate your um what moment is
91:21
the deformation of the Dewar Springs
91:25
because that’s one point is clear that
91:28
yeah I’m I’m not making my hair grow or
91:32
my nails or you know there’s a there’s
91:35
part of this understanding that is clear
91:37
you know that that life is doing it
91:41
there’s a another part that at some
91:45
point rises up and starts claiming the
91:49
worship so you know yes your question
91:54
and requires us to talk about the
91:56
difference between the feeling of free
91:58
will which is a gift and thankfully
92:01
doesn’t dissolve this is the belief in
92:06
personal devotion and often they’re
92:10
thought to be the same thing so your
92:13
question is at what point in our
92:15
evolution in our growth the growth of a
92:18
instrument or organism so the sperm and
92:22
the egg come together form an organism
92:25
that starts growing and it grows
92:27
according to an intelligence built into
92:29
the the DNA let’s just call it that it
92:35
grows and we don’t do the growing we’re
92:37
actually a result of the growing and
92:38
then life starts conditioning us and you
92:42
can see if you observe a baby in a
92:44
bassinet they’re not even aware really
92:47
familiar with the fact that that object
92:49
they’re seeing has anything to do with
92:52
who they are they
92:55
they hands will bump into another hand
92:57
and grab hold of it so they’ll be
92:58
holding their own finger unaware that
93:01
because the link hasn’t yet happened in
93:05
the development of the human being that
93:07
links the consciousness fully with the
93:10
body
93:10
it’s poof it’s functioning through the
93:12
body but certain development hasn’t
93:15
happened because the experiential
93:17
feedback hasn’t been enough yet once
93:19
it’s enough then the sensei oh this is
93:23
this is me I’m touching me that kicks in
93:28
and when we look at the experience as it
93:35
comes into place there is a sense that
93:38
well this is we become familiar with the
93:42
body as being something unique in our
93:46
experience because there’s sensory
93:48
feedback through the body and there is
93:53
this feeling of free will which means we
93:55
don’t get to see that the thinking and
93:58
the functioning is all happening before
94:01
we’re really conscious of it
94:03
it’s it all happens so fast so the
94:06
experience is well I am choosing to pick
94:11
up the water I keep using this example
94:14
because I get to so it feels like
94:20
well that’s me doing it the baby starts
94:24
feeling like oh I have control over this
94:27
thing down now I think it’s my hand
94:29
and so yes which is really the
94:32
biological intelligence of the baby he
94:34
sees a colorful toy and the the
94:40
circumstance the color is attractive to
94:43
the system and so the system moves
94:46
automatically but as that happens more
94:50
and more certain developmental stages
94:54
happen and because there is this feeling
94:59
that even the baby has that they do have
95:02
control over what they move their hand
95:04
towards and what they don’t that feeling
95:07
of free will it’s
95:08
their day in day out day in day out and
95:11
at about the age of three or two and a
95:13
half it’s been there long enough that a
95:15
belief forms now a belief is different
95:18
to the feeling because at some point the
95:20
baby hat doesn’t have the belief in free
95:22
will it doesn’t have the belief in
95:24
personal delusion but they have the the
95:27
feeling the sense that they are free to
95:29
move this but the belief hasn’t set in
95:31
at some point when that feeling has been
95:34
there often enough in life the belief
95:37
sets in and says well I am the doer I am
95:41
a separate independent entity based on
95:43
the actual experience that’s being had
95:49
by the child now that belief doesn’t
95:54
because it’s pulling from the experience
95:56
what the experience feels like it
95:57
doesn’t mean that what the experience is
95:59
telling us is accurate and so the belief
96:03
can be inaccurate based on what the
96:06
experience tells us just like as is used
96:09
you know the experience tells us that
96:10
there is a snake in the corner of the
96:12
shed that’s the old analogy that’s what
96:15
the experience tells us the light is
96:16
looking at us a certain way and so we
96:19
believe it’s a snake but actually it’s a
96:20
rope but the belief it’s a snake is
96:24
there because the experience is
96:27
confirming it’s a snake because it looks
96:29
like a snake so then the belief is out
96:33
of line with what is because what is is
96:38
just subjective experience so it gets
96:45
put in place at three the kid starts
96:47
then feeling like there is this me and
96:49
mine based on the belief and so the
96:54
tantrum ink starts and all then that’s
96:56
when the belief in doer ship gets put in
96:58
place and then that feeling of being in
97:01
control keeps going so the belief that I
97:03
am the doer does continues throughout
97:06
our life to get stronger and stronger
97:08
so this teaching is saying let’s
97:11
investigate whether we really are a
97:13
separate independent entity in control
97:16
of what we do or is it something else is
97:19
it an automatic functioning
97:21
running all the time life is always
97:24
happening through us and so that’s why
97:27
it says that the human being at any
97:29
point in time is a biological instrument
97:32
designed by life to function a
97:35
particular way and therefore if this is
97:39
understood we say well so the action is
97:41
happening through me but it’s not my
97:44
action as a separate independent entity
97:48
but rather it’s the action of an entity
97:51
that is never separate from life never
97:54
insulated from life and we have an idea
97:58
that we are insulated and have grown up
98:00
insulated from life whereas we’ve
98:03
spawned from life the growing is part of
98:06
life and then the conditioning is part
98:09
of life so we’re never at all insulated
98:11
from life and yet the belief that gets
98:13
put in place based on the experience is
98:16
I am insulated from life and so any
98:19
decision I make is my decision
98:22
exclusively instead of seeing yes it’s a
98:25
decision that happens through me but
98:27
completely dependent on my genes and
98:30
up-to-date-conditioning that I had no
98:31
control over and so if we start
98:35
investigating this the good news is the
98:37
feeling of free will doesn’t go anywhere
98:39
as the belief in personal darshan
98:42
dissolves we still feel like if I’ve had
98:45
enough I can get up and excuse myself
98:48
and leave that that feeling of being
98:51
able to reach to the right or to the
98:53
left to correct something or feels like
98:56
oil I have the free will to remove this
98:58
and put it over there so that feeling
99:02
doesn’t change it’s a gift
99:04
otherwise we would feel like we are a
99:06
puppet at the end of a string so a
99:09
subtle change happens where we realize
99:13
as a result of the deep understanding
99:14
that whatever happens through me is are
99:16
happening so then that realization
99:19
allows us to feel like we’re being lived
99:23
see that the other is always being lived
99:28
but not lose the sense of free will and
99:31
sometimes when this recognition that I’m
99:34
not the do
99:35
kicks in for someone they can become
99:38
convinced that they have no feeling of
99:40
free will which once again is conceptual
99:43
so they because they’ve seen that I’m
99:45
not the doer so I don’t have any
99:47
independent free will and so then I say
99:50
but in the moment there is still the
99:53
feeling that you are free to do whatever
99:55
you like no I don’t have that feeling so
99:59
I’m afraid you do you just don’t
100:01
appreciate it because the deep
100:03
understanding that you’re not the doer
100:06
and so they’ve had the deep
100:08
understanding they’re not the door and
100:10
then that theoretical which doesn’t mean
100:15
it’s wrong
100:15
so that is theoretical covers up the
100:20
practical feeling that I am in control
100:23
and that’s a great gift actually if the
100:26
two come together and we see we have the
100:29
feeling that I am in control and the
100:31
deep understanding that whatever I do is
100:33
a happening according to God’s will or
100:34
to life’s will not my doing then I get
100:38
to live as the human being in each
100:40
moment doing exactly what I think or
100:42
feel to do knowing the outcome is not in
100:44
my control knowing that what I chose to
100:48
do in a particular moment was a result
100:50
of my genes and up-to-date-conditioning
100:51
two factors I had no control over see
100:55
the paradox and the beauty of the
100:57
paradox someone who goes around saying I
101:00
have no free will is missing that what
101:04
we mean by free will is the feeling in
101:06
the moment that you are completely free
101:08
to do whatever you think or feel to do I
101:10
understand that the theory which is also
101:13
true it’s the basis of the teaching and
101:15
you’re not really ever doing anything
101:17
let’s not throw the baby out with the
101:19
bathwater so the baby sees two different
101:27
color toys and there’s an attraction for
101:30
one that is that’s the same preference
101:34
right but it’s not in his control that’s
101:37
right the preference is part of his
101:39
genes and up-to-date-conditioning yeah
101:40
and the reason for that one that is
101:42
attracted for him at the moment he could
101:47
you know come to come
101:49
that he has free will because he could
101:51
choose between the two colors because
101:53
there’s a feeling that in in that
101:56
complex process which is a complex
101:59
process where we know that biologically
102:02
the body is always going to move towards
102:03
its preference and away from its a
102:05
version or from pain so that’s a
102:09
biological movement and yet it’s
102:11
accompanied thankfully with a feeling
102:13
that I am free so yes the baby has what
102:20
it feels like it’s choice but actually
102:23
the choice is a biological movement and
102:29
then because of that feeling that is
102:32
there on top of the biological movement
102:36
which is that’s a very nice thing a good
102:39
thing that remains then the
102:41
psychological belief that says I am this
102:44
doer kicks in that’s the problem
102:47
so what falls away in yen is the belief
102:49
that I am the doer we still feel like
102:52
the baby that is free to move towards
102:55
the colorful toy instead of the
102:57
black-and-white one which is really a
103:01
movement according to our preferences
103:04
you know but we still have the feeling
103:08
that I am choosing so when we’re getting
103:17
technical it’s not that we don’t have
103:18
choice we have choice in each moment
103:22
choice is the mechanism by which the
103:25
story of life unfolds but choice is not
103:29
my choice as a separate independent
103:32
entity so clearly if you have a menu
103:34
with ten items on it and one item is
103:36
picked according to your genes and
103:39
up-to-date-conditioning your preference
103:40
we can’t say there is no choice because
103:43
there were ten options and at some point
103:45
one option is picked and so the the
103:48
point of picking is what we can refer to
103:51
as the dynamic of choice when we look
103:54
into that dynamic of choice we see I was
103:56
forced to pick that option
103:59
because of the circumstance those were
104:02
the items on the menu
104:04
and my genes and up-to-date-conditioning
104:05
so we have choice it’s just not my
104:08
choice
104:15
so actually but when I pick because of
104:18
my genes and the conditioning let’s say
104:21
I pick from the menu point to I am also
104:24
able to change the conditioning and even
104:27
to switch on and off the genes so then
104:30
who is doing that it happens you don’t
104:34
change your conditioning I can’t no no
104:37
it happens so but how I mean you know
104:40
there is the quantum physics and of
104:43
course so that I can say is it is it the
104:49
consciousness who is experiencing
104:52
experiencing through me the changement
104:56
of conditioning what you’re saying
105:00
because you can pick choice to and then
105:02
you call the waiter back in sexual they
105:04
all have choice 3 yeah except except I
105:06
of course so I can say okay this is my
105:08
conditioning alone this and these are my
105:10
genes then if I’m aware of it of course
105:13
I can change it no I can’t yeah I can I
105:16
have an even change the neurological
105:19
pattern in my brain that’s all
105:21
and then who is doing this so let me let
105:24
me just put forward the description in
105:26
this teaching which is a concept not the
105:28
truth so I’m not the O’s as a concept
105:30
minds a concept
105:31
I’ll lay out the fact the the rationale
105:34
that says when you make the choice it
105:38
was a result of your genes and
105:41
up-to-date-conditioning that you had no
105:43
control over and once the choices made
105:47
an outcome happens let’s say you pick
105:50
the pancakes and then the pancakes are
105:53
delivered and the pancakes taste really
105:56
bad so that becomes part of your
105:59
up-to-date-conditioning because the
106:01
eating of the pancakes and registering
106:02
that they’re not in line with your
106:04
preferences is new conditioning right
106:07
and so next time a different choice
106:11
might happen
106:13
but also based on the same principle on
106:15
your genes and up-to-date-conditioning
106:16
that included the feedback of having
106:19
ordered ordered the pancakes last time
106:21
so you won’t order the pancakes this
106:23
time then what more specifically what
106:27
you’re talking about is someone tells
106:30
you that next time you’re about to get
106:32
angry be conscious of the fact you’re
106:36
about to get angry and count to ten and
106:38
take three deep breaths and then what
106:43
happens is that that instruction was new
106:47
conditioning as part of the flow of life
106:49
and it changes your
106:50
up-to-date-conditioning and so next time
106:53
when you’re about to get angry you may
106:55
or may not find yourself able to count
107:00
to ten and take three deep breaths if
107:03
you find yourself able to count to ten
107:06
take three deep breaths and you then
107:09
don’t get angry in the same way we say
107:11
ah I chose because I was conscious to
107:15
change my condition worse actually the
107:18
instruction from someone on a anger
107:20
management course or whatever to do this
107:23
was part of your up-to-date-conditioning
107:26
and the only reason that the thought
107:28
arose that says take ten deep breath
107:31
three deep breaths encounter ten is a
107:34
result of your genes and
107:35
up-to-date-conditioning you had no
107:36
choice over that well I didn’t agree
107:40
really with the ten breath and whatever
107:42
so what I mean so what is about the
107:45
narrower Scientology Scientologists who
107:48
exactly did a lot X or a lot of
107:51
experience and research how the cells
107:55
functioning or firing together
107:57
yeah and how you or whatever you is can
108:01
change this functioning to the other so
108:03
they you talked about the neuro
108:04
plasticity of the brain and saying yeah
108:06
and we don’t change it but life impacts
108:10
us it impacts the instrument and the
108:15
brain structure changes when this this
108:18
is the big problem with that what I
108:19
changed it
108:23
the question I mean if I let’s say we
108:26
take the doc the the example with the
108:28
dog let’s say I had bad experience with
108:30
dogs when I was a child now I’m an adult
108:32
and then even if I see a puppy I get
108:34
well so and then I found out or maybe in
108:37
India there are a lot of dogs so it’s
108:38
not so good to be always afraid so
108:40
okay let’s change my conditioning yes so
108:44
and then actually it’s working to change
108:49
it so I can I
108:53
I don’t know through me whatever knows
108:56
how to dry out the old conditioning in
109:02
the way of the neuronal logical path and
109:05
to combine a new neurological
109:08
conditioning which says Oh dogs I’m fine
109:10
yeah so what would happen is the thought
109:13
arises as a result of your circumstance
109:17
being in India seeing all the dogs a
109:19
thought arises that based on your genes
109:22
and up-to-date-conditioning says it’s
109:23
not great to be afraid of dogs they’re
109:25
everywhere right so that thought was a
109:27
happening and then at lunch a happening
109:32
another happening happens where you
109:33
mention this to a friend and they say
109:36
you say you know this is what I’ve
109:37
noticed and the fact that you are saying
109:40
that in that moment is a happening not
109:42
you’re doing right you’re having a
109:44
conversation and suddenly the thought
109:46
about dogs come in and you say and then
109:48
they say hey come to me there’s a guy
109:50
that does dog rehabilitation fear fear
109:57
fear hypnosis and so you go and you get
110:00
hypnotized and all of that is new
110:03
conditioning that is changing the
110:06
neurological pathways but none of it is
110:09
you’re doing it’s all a happening
110:12
according to life so the decision to go
110:18
to the hypnosis person is a result of
110:21
your genes and up-to-date-conditioning
110:23
this is I understand it it’s deepness
110:27
and it’s deeply ingrained right
110:30
this belief intuition um and so what
110:33
you’ve brought up is at some point ago
110:35
no but I choose
110:37
I I you know that the brain is this
110:41
amazingly complex network how on earth
110:46
could you or me change that we don’t
110:50
know where it starts and where it
110:51
finishes what happens is we find ourself
110:55
in life and it turns out that life
110:58
impacts us and the change happens and
111:01
often it’s a positive change a change
111:03
that leads us closer to an optimal state
111:08
so really that’s all that’s being said
111:10
here is that happiness for the human
111:11
being is available but it’s not our
111:15
doing it happens through a process of
111:19
life delivering new conditioning you
111:21
know you saw a poster or a friend said
111:25
let’s go to this talk according to the
111:28
circumstance having seen the poster and
111:30
your genes and up-to-date-conditioning
111:32
someone else saw the poster and said no
111:35
not going when you came here you had no
111:38
control over what I was going to say so
111:41
it’s a mystery what I was going to say
111:45
and then what I say is either changing
111:50
the neurological pathway in your brain
111:52
or it’s not right not my doing and not
111:55
your doing
111:56
a happening according to life God’s will
112:03
will have to keep it as the last
112:05
question because we’re already running a
112:07
little over time you can come back
112:12
tomorrow the day after I’ll be here
112:13
again so some teachers say that there’s
112:16
only free will and a human being has
112:19
free will live therefore human being has
112:21
karma and spiritual path is an
112:25
expression of the free will whose
112:27
animals don’t have but it sounds like
112:31
you’re saying that even that is a
112:33
movement of life that we have no control
112:35
over exactly so from a deeper
112:38
perspective karma and you know when we
112:42
we should be clever enough at some point
112:44
I think to say what mainstream religion
112:46
says is probably not that true
112:51
so but there as a teaching or maybe not
112:55
only a teaching as a something or other
112:58
there’s a reason for so karma from a
113:02
broader perspective is then seen as
113:04
cause-and-effect and so it was my Karma
113:08
to have a certain genes and
113:10
up-to-date-conditioning and therefore
113:12
part of my Karma to steal something or
113:14
to do good things for someone and as a
113:17
result of that and the complexity of
113:19
life my Karma to receive a punishment or
113:24
a reward and so from this point of view
113:27
there is no personal karma in the sense
113:30
of a doer that is being rewarded or
113:32
punished for their actions but rather
113:35
just simple cause and effect and so when
113:38
if you turn up in front of a theoretic
113:42
or a hypothetical God which in this
113:45
teaching there is no God that you will
113:47
come across God is source that has
113:50
turned into the story of life God has
113:52
turned into the good and the bad the
113:54
interconnected opposites of duality God
113:58
God would say what’s your name
114:00
he would Cora God would already know
114:03
that and give you a high five Cora great
114:08
job you know in each moment you did
114:10
exactly what you were destined to do God
114:13
understanding the mechanics of life
114:15
can’t punish someone for doing what they
114:19
were forced to do so God has never
114:22
judged you this notion of a God that
114:24
judges us is part of our psychological
114:27
thinking mind that falls away so now if
114:30
we see there is no God that can hate me
114:33
or punish me then we get to love God the
114:37
God that we love is life
115:20
you
115:28
you

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Holger