01-14-2019 Roger Castillo – trust in the natural intelligence of life

  • Holger 

 

Transcript

01:42
so there are two gears in which we can
01:47
function as human beings and we’ve only
01:52
been told about one of them by and large
01:56
there’s a bit like having a car that has
01:59
two years and we really only know about
02:04
one of them and the one that we’ve been
02:11
sort of shaped into functioning in is
02:16
the one where there’s a whole lot of
02:18
thinking happening all the time about
02:20
what is going on
02:29
and the other gear that’s available
02:32
potentially is a gear where we can drop
02:36
into a place in our self where we can
02:43
rest without the thinking mind
02:50
functioning
03:00
now if we hear about the end of the
03:02
thinking mind but we don’t find this
03:06
other gear what happens is we try to
03:09
stop the thinking mind essentially still
03:12
being in the same plane of thinking and
03:17
at best it’s sort of a bit like holding
03:20
our breath it’s like we try to suppress
03:24
the thinking and we can do it for so
03:27
long and then it just goes back into
03:31
thinking so we’re essentially trying to
03:34
stop thinking with thinking and it
03:39
doesn’t work and that’s why it’s very
03:41
frustrating sometimes when we hear about
03:43
the end of thinking and when I talk
03:46
about the end of thinking I’m not
03:48
talking about the end of all thinking
03:49
I’m talking about the type of thinking
03:51
that creates an uncomfortableness and
03:54
availing of our true self so an
03:57
uncomfortableness with our self because
04:01
it covers up a connection with our true
04:04
self don’t hear me talk about the end of
04:10
thinking and think that at some point
04:12
thinking all sorts of thinking stops
04:14
because a lot of thinking is very
04:16
important for functioning and daily
04:18
living the functional thinking is very
04:22
important and it doesn’t disturb our
04:24
peace of mind and it doesn’t disconnect
04:26
us from our connection with ourselves so
04:29
it’s a very specific type of thinking
04:31
and in this teaching we call the
04:33
thinking mind and the thinking mind as
04:36
many of you have heard me say is based
04:38
on the belief in personal doership and
04:40
attachment or outcome and so it’s always
04:43
attitudinal to circumstance the thinking
04:46
mind is always looking at the
04:49
circumstance and judging it looking at
04:52
the circumstance and wanting it to be
04:53
different looking at our actions and
04:57
finding them to be inappropriate looking
04:59
at the actions of others and finding
05:01
them to be inappropriate and that
05:03
commentary essentially is a resistance
05:06
with life it’s an identity that has
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formed as a result of certain beliefs
05:15
about who we are and what life is and it
05:17
just is in continuous resistance with
05:20
what’s happening our the core of our
05:26
being isn’t in resistance with what’s
05:29
happening it’s part of and one with
05:32
what’s happening and it doesn’t have the
05:35
same relationship to what’s happening as
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this identity this mental image of
05:40
ourself that has been formed has and so
05:48
this mental image which is essentially
05:50
based on an error a false idea of who we
05:53
are a false idea of how life actually
05:56
unfolds what the mechanism of life is
06:00
because it’s based on an error
06:02
so it’s an erroneous mental self-image
06:06
what Ramana calls the self with a small
06:09
s because it’s an erroneous idea of who
06:13
we are it feels uncomfortable and when
06:17
it falls away and the self with a
06:20
capital S is revealed our true nature
06:22
that isn’t in resistance Here I am
06:27
what a relief and it’s the end of
06:31
uncomfortableness with oneself in the
06:33
end of uncomfortableness with the other
06:39
so this movement of dropping out of the
06:45
thinking mind out of the self identity
06:49
into the core of our being is a movement
06:54
that is available
07:00
and it’s something that tends to develop
07:03
over time it can happen spontaneously it
07:10
does the drop is is really a spontaneous
07:12
drop but what happens is we tend to get
07:14
pulled out of there again very quickly
07:16
and over time as we trod that path more
07:22
and more frequently it’s sort of like
07:26
going through a jungle and the more and
07:29
more you go through the jungle and knock
07:31
off branches here and there in the path
07:33
eventually is quite easy to walk and
07:38
we’re familiar with it we don’t get lost
07:40
and go down places and so dropping into
07:45
the heart is something we can become
07:46
very intimately familiar with it
07:49
actually in the end becomes our home
07:52
that we don’t leave so we live life from
07:54
there and living life from there means
07:58
the end of resistance to life on an
08:02
attitudinal level because you remain
08:05
connect to the self that is not in
08:07
opposition with what’s happening even
08:09
when what is happening is not in line
08:12
with the biological preferences of the
08:13
body so even when life is painful there
08:18
isn’t an attitudinal resistance and this
08:20
doesn’t mean there isn’t a biological
08:21
resistance because the the biological
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part of us is intelligent so if someone
08:27
is pin pricking you there’s going to be
08:30
a biological resistance to that and like
08:33
just like when a mosquito bites you or
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and you swat it away that’s a biological
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resistance you could say the
08:40
psychological resistance is what causes
08:43
our uncomfortableness
08:52
and so resting in our being means that
08:57
that psychological resistance doesn’t
08:58
happen for a very good reason because we
09:00
know when we’re there that I’m complete
09:05
before and after the circumstance it’s
09:09
not a belief it’s it’s your own direct
09:13
feedback of yourself that what I am at
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my core is not affected by whether
09:20
someone shouts at me whether I miss my
09:23
airplane whether the food I ordered is
09:25
what I ordered or whether it’s good or
09:27
bad whether I get a massage that feels
09:29
fantastic whether someone compliments me
09:32
all of these things are part and parcel
09:34
of life we can’t exclude them but
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they’re on the level of biological
09:38
pleasure and pain
09:47
so one of the deep insights then we come
09:53
to see from our own experience when we
09:55
drop into our own being is that my
09:57
happiness my completeness is not
09:59
dependent on outcomes not dependent on
10:04
the pleasure or pain not dependent on
10:07
the other it’s my nature my nature is
10:12
completeness and comfortableness with
10:15
oneself comfortableness with the other
10:19
so that’s not a belief that’s something
10:22
we need to be able to know from the
10:26
experience of dropping in there the
10:29
dropping in happens it’s not something
10:31
that we control as a doer that’s this
10:35
notion of a doer that’s in control is
10:38
part of the thinking mind so we’ll talk
10:40
about that and having this first
10:47
heightened first-hand insight that what
10:49
I am at my core isn’t actually disturbed
10:52
by circumstance the disturbance comes
10:54
when the thinking mind kicks in allows
11:00
us to recognize something about the
11:02
nature of suffering we become equipped
11:07
the working mind which is the functional
11:09
mind and that’s the mind I’m talking to
11:11
that’s the part of the brain I’m
11:13
speaking to I’m just delivering
11:14
descriptions once the working mind
11:18
receives these descriptions and then
11:21
starts to use the descriptions and
11:23
starts getting its own confirmation of
11:26
what the descriptions are saying the
11:28
working mind then sees the thinking mind
11:30
in action sees the thinking mind
11:33
creating a whole story of
11:36
uncomfortableness about what the other
11:38
has done what the other has done is a
11:40
circumstantial outcome it’s pleasure or
11:44
pain I have a great example recently of
11:50
tenants in my house and they didn’t pay
11:56
quite a lot of money and they left quite
12:00
a lot of damage you could say so that
12:05
was biological pain not in line with my
12:07
preference and yet because the identity
12:14
that tended to be the identity that
12:19
experienced life has been dissolved you
12:25
could say based on insight and grace
12:30
this event was seen as destiny unfolding
12:34
was my destiny their destiny their
12:36
destined to live in a house for free my
12:39
destiny not to receive the rent that was
12:44
due and to have to deal with damage etc
12:47
now that means from a certain
12:50
perspective it’s the unfolding of life
12:54
this in each moment life is unfolding
12:57
not in my control not in the others
12:59
control it’s a much bigger thing than
13:02
you and I and so from this perspective
13:06
it wasn’t the other as a separate
13:10
independent entity that did this to me
13:16
it was part of the unfolding of life and
13:19
they were the instruments through which
13:21
this happened so I have to accept I have
13:25
to enjoy or endure the pleasure of the
13:28
pain and attitudinally we can either
13:34
accept it or resist it
13:36
and so as we see the resistance of the
13:43
pain of the circumstance we start to
13:46
notice that there’s this whole extra
13:48
load of suffering blame let’s say
13:52
towards the other as a separate
13:54
independent doer that has hurt me so I
13:57
have to hate them you’ve hurt me I hate
14:00
you and if we believe that our happiness
14:01
is to be found and outcomes that’s what
14:04
this this self-identity believes that my
14:07
completeness is to be found in outcomes
14:08
well that action
14:10
is received as an attack on Who I am so
14:15
we have to resist that
14:23
but as it becomes clearer that that’s
14:26
not an attack on Who I am then when the
14:31
blame arises it gets seen by the working
14:35
mind as a story that is saying yes that
14:38
is an attack on Who I am that is an
14:40
attack on my completeness and that story
14:43
can be seen as a result of our makeup in
14:46
this particular moment if it’s happening
14:49
it’s a result of our makeup in this
14:50
moment and it just means that our makeup
14:56
includes some false ideas in it
15:10
do you mean the makeup in that very
15:14
moment where it happened or generally I
15:17
mean like caramel Weiss or is it like
15:21
more do you see it more like an energy
15:23
that attracts the like that attracts
15:26
another energy that matches with it in
15:28
the moment moment for moment second to
15:31
second or was it like a general make up
15:35
the point where you are so what what I’m
15:40
suggesting is that the human being in
15:42
each moment in any moment in this moment
15:44
is one way your based on the biological
15:49
instrument that consciousness is
15:52
functioning through so what the human
15:54
being is to me the person is
15:56
consciousness linked to a particular
15:59
body mind organism and functioning
16:01
through that body mind organism aware of
16:04
the world and and functioning as a
16:06
person and so the person in each moment
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functions in totality the totality of
16:13
their functioning including the thinking
16:15
their attitude to things that behaviors
16:18
based on their genes and
16:20
up-to-date-conditioning how the the body
16:24
exists in that moment how it has grown
16:27
how it has been impacted by society and
16:30
by friends and by its own thinking but
16:34
don’t you sorry
16:35
don’t you think that changes I mean I
16:38
I’ve experienced that the changes like
16:40
very fast for me at least sure but when
16:43
you freeze frame it in a particular
16:45
moment it’s one way okay and in that
16:49
minute or in that moment whatever how
16:52
long it takes anyway like time doesn’t
16:53
really exist in that moment you attract
16:56
the like the like like that it do you
17:00
think like it’s like an energy match
17:05
that you attract that very thing that
17:08
happened to you whether positive
17:11
negative whatever as a match to the
17:13
energy that you’re emitting I mean may
17:16
you know there’s lots of the workings of
17:18
the universe
17:19
the the how it actually all happens not
17:23
something that the human intellect can
17:25
understand so what we’re trying what I’m
17:28
trying to do and what ramesh used to do
17:31
say let’s look at the real problem and
17:33
if we look at the real problem which is
17:36
suffering in daily living
17:40
then we narrow it down and we say ok
17:44
let’s understand suffering and daily
17:45
living and see if we can understand this
17:49
part of the functioning of the universe
17:51
and if it’s a simple part of the
17:54
functioning of the universe just like
17:55
you know a gate on a hinge we can
17:57
understand the functioning of a gate on
17:59
a hinge simple mechanics so if we look
18:03
at just the problem at hand which is
18:06
human unhappiness because these talks
18:08
really at the end of the day about human
18:09
happiness that’s what we’re really
18:11
looking for would become seekers because
18:14
there was human unhappiness suffering
18:16
and intuitively we understand this isn’t
18:20
this isn’t natural it isn’t my potential
18:24
and so a seeking happens for the end of
18:26
suffering that’s why if we keep it
18:29
narrow then we don’t need to ask certain
18:32
questions and so I’m sorry I don’t mean
18:40
to be I’m really saying it from the from
18:44
my heart that spirituality it’s
18:46
complicated sometimes and it doesn’t
18:48
need to be that complicated it’s just
18:51
like the Philosopher’s philosophical
18:54
part in me that I really like to you
18:57
know like ponder and all this stuff like
18:58
I said it yesterday I’m curious because
19:03
I actually basically am already happy
19:07
thank you okay so the the definition of
19:15
liberation or enlightenment here right
19:18
because to be honest you if someone says
19:22
they’re enlightened they have to be
19:23
talking about of what enlightenment are
19:25
you talking about according to what
19:26
definition
19:30
so enlightenment itself isn’t a
19:33
definition but if someone were to say oh
19:35
are you enlightened I’ve said what what
19:38
do you mean by that
19:39
so the definition of enlightenment in
19:41
this teaching is whereby the individual
19:47
has understood the nature of themself
19:50
and the nature of life sufficiently that
19:52
suffering has come to an end
19:54
so it’s not about being in several
19:57
places at once or having special powers
20:00
or understanding the workings of the
20:03
universe it’s about the end of suffering
20:06
so that’s why we try I I try to
20:11
following in the footsteps of Ramesh say
20:15
this end of suffering can come about and
20:17
it tends not to come about because
20:19
there’s a lot of confusion that would
20:22
narrow it down to what’s really
20:24
important um and if the suffering is not
20:29
in someone’s life if someone finds
20:32
themselves going through life with
20:33
continuous unbroken peace of mind then
20:36
I’d say that’s the enlightenment that’s
20:39
available now often we come through
20:43
paths that are part of the methodology
20:48
of getting there and the methodology of
20:51
getting there sometimes doesn’t focus on
20:54
the end of suffering but focuses on a
20:56
lot of other things that can be part and
21:00
parcel of the end of suffering can you
21:06
turn the AC down
21:12
so and you might want to open some
21:15
windows in that case oh yeah I think
21:22
we’ll scare them off so in a particular
21:35
moment the human being is one way based
21:40
on their genes and
21:41
up-to-date-conditioning which are always
21:42
changing because life is always
21:44
delivering new conditioning and the new
21:46
conditioning changes our
21:48
up-to-date-conditioning
21:53
and the thinking mind which is based on
21:58
this false identity of who we are can
22:04
dissolve because it’s an error a mistake
22:07
a mistake put in by life so when I say
22:12
it’s a mistake I don’t mean that it’s
22:13
out of line with the totality of life
22:15
it’s here so in the totality of life
22:18
it’s very valid but when we look at it
22:21
relative to what we really are it’s a
22:25
mistake it’s a mistake that gets changed
22:28
by life so we are always changing
22:31
thankfully so in the moment when we
22:34
happen to have suffering arising it’s
22:39
because of our makeup in that moment a
22:42
makeup that allows the suffering to
22:44
arise and if that suffering is going to
22:47
end at some point it’s because our
22:49
makeup it’s changed so spiritual
22:53
teachings are essentially delivering new
22:56
pointers new information that becomes
23:00
part of our hopefully becomes part of
23:03
our system part of a contemplation part
23:05
of an investigation for ourselves and
23:08
that leads to change in a way that
23:12
hopefully leads to the end of suffering
23:22
so dropping into the heart dropping into
23:27
a place where we know our self
23:32
unaffected by circumstance it’s
23:35
something we need to hear about
23:38
something we need to know is available
23:44
and then we might even get given some
23:50
information that sounds like
23:52
instructions they’re not really
23:55
instructions they’re just descriptions
23:58
that are being delivered that may become
24:02
part of the person’s make up and then we
24:06
might find automatically that this
24:09
dropping happens so what is the dropping
24:13
the dropping is essentially dropping out
24:15
of the stream of thinking and it only
24:19
happens if the thinking is seen to be
24:28
out of line if the thinking is seen to
24:32
not be helpful to not deliver what we
24:35
think it delivers the reason the
24:39
thinking keeps happening and when I talk
24:42
about thinking I’m talking about a
24:44
thinking that in its condensed form can
24:47
feel it’s not just on the level of motto
24:50
of thought but it it’s a feeling of
24:53
uncomfortableness it keeps happening
24:56
because the the body system thinks that
25:01
it’s useful to do it so if it thinks
25:05
it’s useful do it it keeps doing it it’s
25:07
like a program it has to it’s it’s
25:09
habitual and spiritual teachings are
25:13
telling us that we forgotten our true
25:16
nature
25:21
we’ve been hypnotized let’s say into
25:27
believing that we’re something that
25:29
we’re not and as a result of that
25:32
identity that’s put in place a whole lot
25:34
of thinking that is illusory that covers
25:39
up our true nature happens and so the
25:44
reason this is its toll is so that
25:46
something in the system then there’s
25:48
haha I want to see what is illusory and
25:51
I want to know what is real and so then
25:54
we get more descriptions that thinking
25:57
about the past and the future obscures
26:00
the present moment and where we exist
26:04
where our true nature exists is always
26:06
in the present moment where it’s
26:07
accessible is here right here now when
26:15
it’s not obscured by the thinking
26:24
so if we see a certain type of thinking
26:27
that we’ve come to understand is
26:30
believed by the body to be beneficial
26:34
but actually is erroneous and if we find
26:39
that we not only believe it’s erroneous
26:42
but we see it actually is disturbing my
26:44
life I have the pain of not receiving
26:48
the rent and then I’m blaming the other
26:53
and that blame is a whole extra level a
26:56
whole extra load of blame on top of the
27:00
circumstantial pain and so we’re told
27:07
were reminded that the flow of life on a
27:10
circumstantial level is always going to
27:12
be pleasure or pain that’s something to
27:15
change people we love are going to die
27:18
we’re going to get sick we’re going to
27:22
lose things we’re going to miss
27:24
aeroplanes people are going to shout at
27:26
us cars are going to pull in front of us
27:29
when we’re driving all of these are
27:31
inevitable parts of life that we can’t
27:34
control so if we are thinking is
27:40
convinced that our completeness is to be
27:42
found in pleasure pleasure pleasure
27:44
pleasure so it goes out with this crazy
27:47
mission of trying to turn life from
27:52
being sometimes pleasure and sometimes
27:54
pain into pleasure pleasure pleasure
27:55
pleasure no wonder we’re tired trying to
27:58
trying to do there’s no wonder we’re
27:59
frustrated it’s not going to happen
28:03
so if the working mind starts to be
28:07
equipped starts to understand that the
28:10
flow of life is going to be pleasure and
28:12
pain when pain is delivered the universe
28:14
hasn’t broken the universe is actually
28:17
working perfectly well this is
28:22
unacceptable to the self-identity that
28:25
believes it’s completeness is to be
28:27
found and pleasure pleasure pleasure it
28:28
doesn’t want to hear that life is
28:30
pleasure and pain because that’s an
28:33
attack on its completeness
28:36
so the great news is to know that there
28:39
is a self identity that is full of error
28:42
doesn’t doesn’t understand what we
28:46
really are because why this is great is
28:51
that the below that our true self isn’t
28:57
dependent on pleasure and pain which
28:59
means life can be pleasure and pain and
29:02
it’s not an attack on who we are this is
29:05
the beginning of a relaxation when pain
29:10
presents it frankly is not possible to
29:16
relax and accept pain when that self
29:21
identity that sees pain as an attack on
29:23
itself is in place so someone can have
29:28
the strongest of intentions of accepting
29:30
it just is a a physical physics and
29:37
possibility to accept when there is an
29:40
identity that sees pain as an attack on
29:44
what it is and so these talks are all
29:48
about highlighting that identity and
29:53
highlighting the beliefs of the identity
29:55
and trying to allow and deliver pointers
29:59
that allow us to see why those beliefs
30:01
are inaccurate so dropping into our
30:03
being in the face of pain is great
30:10
experiential feedback that tells us my
30:16
happiness my completeness is not
30:18
dependent on pleasure pleasure pleasure
30:21
pleasure what that means is that when we
30:24
find ourself in a situation that is
30:26
painful and the thinking mind kicks in
30:30
and starts adding a load of blame
30:34
towards the other or resistance to the
30:38
outcome
30:41
if the working mind kick since is your
30:43
happiness isn’t to be found and outcomes
30:45
and that thinking gets cut off and we
30:48
find ourselves dropping into a place
30:50
where we remember who we are and a
30:57
little smile comes onto our face while
30:59
the circumstance is still what it was a
31:03
second ago painful not what we would
31:06
like and yet we find one minute there is
31:09
a resistance to the pain and the next
31:14
moment drop into the core of our being
31:16
and we find an ease even in the face of
31:24
pain so that starts to become our own
31:29
circumstantial or our feedback from our
31:33
own experience that confirms that what I
31:35
am and my core remains untouched by the
31:39
circumstance
31:51
so my question is about the identity
31:54
when you say is I done a lot of thinking
31:59
last few days about the I because I
32:02
understood from what you said that the I
32:05
the same like the toys have never
32:07
started or at least I don’t know where
32:10
it really started maybe when I was two
32:13
when we were that in that age when the
32:17
separation happens if we know that even
32:19
so if we’re talking about that identity
32:23
what what is it really where does it lie
32:26
is it the thinking mind just like a
32:28
mechanism in the mind
32:30
because I mean literally I can’t sleep
32:33
because I think about it all the time
32:36
where is it well it’s kind of freaky you
32:39
know when you’re at point when you see
32:41
that you don’t exist in terms like not
32:45
like physically but I do have a body but
32:49
not the idea of me it’s just ID an idea
32:53
yeah it’s actually the idea of you as a
32:57
doer because at some point after
33:03
awakening to the the self and for a
33:10
while having identified as self
33:13
awareness Brahman even there has to be a
33:18
safe knowing past that because it’s not
33:21
completely accurate and coming back and
33:23
realizing oh no I am a person now this
33:28
might sound like oh no this is nonsense
33:31
we start off thinking we’re a person and
33:32
we realize that we’re nothing hmm that’s
33:35
part of the process of coming to
33:37
understand ourselves truly as a person
33:40
because the nothingness is the
33:41
consciousness aspect of the person if if
33:44
we remain thinking I am the awareness
33:48
but I’m not the body then when you look
33:51
at it you’ll realize that one day I’ll
33:53
deserve this inside wow this is the
33:55
ultimate dualistic separation
34:00
but it’s a necessary part of the process
34:02
and that’s why the teachings which are
34:05
very profound teachings will bring in
34:07
the notion of truth and illusion for
34:10
example to create a conceptual
34:12
distinction which allows the mind to say
34:14
I yeah I’m not interested in that
34:16
because that’s illusion that’s not real
34:17
I’m interested in what is taught what is
34:20
said to be truth and what’s said to be
34:23
truth is awareness consciousness the
34:26
very thing that the person is not aware
34:29
of it’s intimately part of us as a
34:32
person and yet because of the way that
34:35
we develop we become highly aware of the
34:39
gross aspects the thinking and the body
34:42
and the circumstances and this very
34:45
basis of the life experience the
34:47
consciousness is unrecognized so the
34:50
teachings have to go through and tell us
34:52
we’re not the body where the awareness
34:55
that’s not the truth where is the
35:02
identity is it okay yeah it’s just the
35:08
idea it is when you start thinking about
35:10
it it’s just I mean okay so um just
35:16
entertain me for a little bit longer um
35:19
no I’ll get to the question cuz it’s a
35:21
good question but I want to give some
35:23
back some some background because
35:26
without certain background the answer
35:29
won’t necessarily make sense it might
35:31
make sense to you because I on that I
35:32
can see where you’re coming from but the
35:35
acceptance of the body is sometimes in
35:38
in spiritual teachings it’s you know
35:43
we’ve just gone to everything is just
35:44
spontaneously arising and it’s got
35:47
nothing to be do with the body we need
35:50
to sort of accept the potential that
35:53
maybe we are a person sometimes a person
35:56
that is convinced that they are not a
35:58
person your your question is saying
36:02
where what is this identity and the
36:05
answer I’d like to put forward is that
36:07
okay we we are a person we are the ego
36:11
the person
36:12
the ego the ego doesn’t dissolve the
36:15
person doesn’t dissolve but before
36:18
liberation you could say there is a
36:21
person or an ego with the belief in
36:24
personal doership and attachment to
36:26
outcomes so this is important with the
36:30
belief of personal doership and
36:32
attachment to outcomes and after
36:35
liberation there is still a person but
36:39
now without the belief in personal
36:41
doership and attachment to outcomes and
36:43
when that belief system falls away there
36:49
is a realization or a recognition of the
36:53
person in a more accurate way which
36:57
reveals that the person is not separate
36:59
from life that is the person is always
37:02
connected to life and that life is
37:05
flowing through the person so speaking
37:07
is happening but it’s not exclusively my
37:11
doing as a separate independent entity
37:15
because we we come to see I am NOT I’ve
37:17
never been a separate independent entity
37:19
so the false identity the false self is
37:23
essentially a belief that has been
37:26
ingrained by life through the
37:31
development developmental process of the
37:33
human being and that belief while it
37:36
remains in place essentially is a belief
37:40
I am that at that time and at the core
37:45
of that I am is I am a physical entity
37:52
that requires life to turn out the way I
37:56
wanted to turn out that’s what the
37:58
attachment to outcome part is so when
38:05
that belief is in place when life
38:08
unfolds out of line with our expectation
38:13
with our preferences there is an
38:16
attitudinal resistance so the belief
38:19
explodes into into a
38:24
a more complex expression so if the
38:28
belief says I am this and I require life
38:31
to look like X Y Z when life turns out
38:35
to be ABC then the identity says this is
38:41
an attack on Who I am I need life to be
38:43
X Y Z and it’s ABC and it has to start
38:47
thinking that way it has to start
38:50
resisting because the belief is in place
38:54
and the peace the freedom the liberation
38:58
is what is there when that belief system
39:02
has been eradicated
39:03
and then life turns out to be X Y or Z
39:07
or ABC and there is no belief to explode
39:11
into resistance with with life so the
39:16
identity is essentially a set of false
39:19
beliefs which means a set of beliefs
39:22
that sees ourself inaccurately and sees
39:28
life inaccurately so how does it see
39:30
ourself inaccurate it sees ourself as
39:32
the doer meaning a separate independent
39:35
entity in control of everything that I
39:37
think they feel and do and therefore we
39:40
see the other as a separate independent
39:42
entity which were not where is it in the
39:52
memory is it in a thinking mind because
39:56
when the photo rises in the morning
40:02
history and everything so it’s not just
40:05
like single thought it’s the thought
40:06
with all this belief system so yes so
40:10
the identity and so remember these are
40:13
all concepts our teaching is a set of
40:15
concepts it’s not the truth but I can
40:19
assure you that these concepts the the
40:25
concepts along with other teachings that
40:28
are equally valid these concepts are
40:31
concepts even though they’re not the
40:32
truth nothing is the truth
40:36
that is extremely effective at undoing
40:40
the error so where does the identity lie
40:45
what is it it would say it’s in the
40:47
brain the now as you say when you wake
40:53
up in the morning a whole lot of
40:55
identity or comes in
40:59
well let’s not call it identity our
41:01
experience of our self there’s the
41:05
experience of the body experience of the
41:07
consciousness memory the memory doesn’t
41:10
dissolve when liberation happens so that
41:13
functioning of the body which is in the
41:15
brain continues to happen brahmana
41:17
remembered his school school friend who
41:20
died so he received a letter one day and
41:22
letter informed him that his his
41:25
childhood friend had died in a tear came
41:27
to his eye because he remembered his
41:32
friend
41:32
so memories is a function of the brain
41:35
that carries on and so Ramana would have
41:39
remembered himself as a young man living
41:42
in the cave and that’s not what
41:47
dissolves so a whole lot of how we know
41:51
ourself in the morning is also contained
41:53
in the in the body and brains structure
41:58
and it doesn’t really cause a problem
42:01
it’s actually it’s what we are in this
42:03
life we are this person with memories
42:07
the thinking mind is a subset and that
42:12
subset can dissolve and that subset
42:16
dissolving means how we relate to what
42:18
we remember how we think about what’s
42:22
going to happen in the future so the
42:24
capacity to think about the future is
42:25
still there if we need to plan a trip we
42:29
need to project into the future and make
42:31
some plans the thinking mind gets
42:34
attached to the outcomes thinking okay
42:36
this is how I have thought it should
42:37
happen so it’s better gonna happen when
42:39
that thinking mind dissolves the working
42:42
mind which is also part of the body
42:45
brain structure
42:47
the capacity to plan things in the
42:49
future but it has the wisdom to
42:52
understand that it may not turn out the
42:55
way we plan so the identity is
43:00
essentially a set of beliefs in the
43:07
brain so essentially if we unprogrammed
43:13
a set of beliefs we can just be free of
43:16
suffering on the logical level yes and
43:19
what we have to see is that we didn’t
43:22
program the brain in the first place we
43:24
didn’t put this set of beliefs in life
43:27
as it unfolded as it impacted us moment
43:31
after moment as the sperm and the egg
43:34
come together and the growing process
43:36
happens the complexity of the human form
43:39
that’s on something we controlled and
43:41
then it got impacted by language and the
43:46
way we saw things and the way our family
43:48
and society tells us about things and
43:51
drawing conclusions based on the
43:53
experience that we have as a human in a
43:56
world and the belief gets put in place
43:58
and so how does the belief get undone
44:03
same way by life delivering new
44:07
conditioning to the other part of the
44:11
brain the brain that and that the
44:16
conditioning is said don’t take this as
44:18
truth don’t take this as a set of
44:21
instructions for you as a doer to
44:23
achieve everything that is said is just
44:27
a description and that description when
44:31
seen so the description is that our
44:33
unhappiness arises in the form of blame
44:36
is that one form of our unhappiness it’s
44:39
just a description if the working mind
44:42
receives that description it will
44:45
observe the thinking mind in action
44:48
it’ll it will see the thinking mind
44:50
blaming and it will say ah this is blame
44:55
this is my unhappiness and it will say
44:57
am i unhappiness yes I am
44:59
unhappy in this moment I can feel it and
45:03
when we look to see what is happening we
45:06
see there’s blame towards the other for
45:07
what they did or didn’t do so the
45:10
working mind then the work in mind is is
45:14
not the thinking mind so the working
45:16
mind doesn’t jump in and say how do I
45:19
fix this that would be the job of the
45:22
thinking mind the working mind
45:23
understands that that is happening
45:26
because of our makeup in that moment it
45:30
just understands mechanics that’s what
45:32
it’s being programmed now to understand
45:34
so it sees it the seeing of it is the
45:40
change
45:51
now I know there’s a lot of words and I
45:54
know that the words can be received by
46:00
our brain in a way that does disconnect
46:05
us from our self so at any time feel
46:08
free this day this satsang was about
46:10
dropping into being and I’ve done a lot
46:16
of talking but why have I done talking
46:21
because the process by which we drop
46:23
into being is when the working mind
46:27
realizes that all this thinking
46:29
especially the thinking of the war of
46:32
the thinking mind is unnecessary and not
46:34
only unnecessary but it’s a huge
46:35
disturbance so it needs to become
46:38
educated and it becomes in a way the
46:42
policeman it becomes the group that
46:47
resists what the lass is doing so it it
46:52
becomes one that says hey no this isn’t
46:54
true what you’re saying you know what
46:57
what the thinking mind is is bursting
47:00
into the working mind said I don’t
47:04
believe that so it does need to be it
47:09
needs to be there but when it says I
47:12
don’t believe that doesn’t get into a
47:13
big argument with the thinking mind it
47:17
has the potential to just cut off the
47:19
thinking mind and once the working mind
47:22
has cut off the thinking mind its
47:24
subsides
47:34
and is a whole lot of space
47:51
so Nissa goddesses story was such that
47:55
he said that when he met Sudhir Mishra
47:58
Maharaja she’s guru nanaka Dada was a
48:02
bhakti he wasn’t a jnana yoga
48:07
seeker the bhakti devotional jnana yoga
48:12
is this where infant and and ramana’s
48:17
teaching is part of jnana yoga although
48:20
there is a obviously a devotional aspect
48:22
at the end
48:23
jnana becomes bhakti and bhakti becomes
48:26
jnana they’re not really too but the
48:29
paths seem different so nessa katate was
48:31
a bhakti and the bhakti basically is
48:35
devoted to the Guru completely and his
48:38
guru said abide in I am and he said my
48:43
guru told me to abide and I am so that’s
48:46
what I did
48:47
and after 4 years there was self
48:48
realization so what is this abiding in I
48:52
am abiding in I am is a movement that
48:57
can happen what was spoken of at the
48:59
beginning are dropping out of one gear
49:02
into another dropping out of the
49:05
thinking mind into being and how does
49:08
the dropping out of thinking mind happen
49:11
it happens when the thinking mind is
49:13
happening the working mind recognizes
49:17
that and the wisdom in the working mind
49:19
essentially pops up and cuts the
49:21
thinking off like it’s not true and
49:26
dropping down into being happens
49:34
and so abide in I am is the suggestion
49:40
not really an instruction it’s a
49:43
description of what might happen if we
49:45
become shaped by life a certain way so
49:51
dropping into I am is something that can
49:53
happen more and more regularly so abide
49:57
in I am means go there as often as
50:01
possible rest there for as long as
50:04
possible understand that you’re not the
50:08
doer of this this is something that
50:09
happens so if you find a dropping into
50:13
being happening in getting dragged out
50:16
of it that’s not you failing that’s the
50:20
mechanism of dropping in and then being
50:23
pulled out and so half an hour later the
50:27
working mind might recognize that the
50:28
thinking mind is going in and it kicks
50:31
up again so in my case because I had
50:35
been reading certain pointers the thing
50:39
that kicked up was just I am a thought I
50:42
am but in the thought I am was all of
50:48
the essentially working mind wisdom that
50:51
I’ve been speaking about the working
50:54
mind wisdom that had recognized that
50:55
blame is just adding a whole lot of a
50:59
whole load of uncomfortableness on top
51:01
of the pain in the moment that guilt and
51:05
shame is adding a whole lot of
51:07
uncomfortableness on top of the pain in
51:09
the moment that expectation is
51:12
essentially image of how life should
51:16
look that is disturbing us from being in
51:18
this present moment that worry is a
51:22
whole lot of uncomfortableness arising
51:26
because of a mechanism that’s trying to
51:29
control and thinks that it can control
51:31
how life turns out so once all of this
51:35
is recognized
51:36
once it’s known that what I am if my
51:39
core is not what this self-identity
51:41
believes itself to be the thought I am
51:45
can
51:45
rinds containing in all of this wisdom
51:49
but we don’t need to think about it and
51:51
the thought I am can just cut off the
51:55
thinking mind and we know that the place
51:59
to go
52:00
simultaneous to that is to drop into
52:02
being
52:16
so something that can enable an access
52:21
to this to the heart let’s say is to
52:27
open your gaze our gaze because of our
52:34
thinking has tended to become very
52:37
focused and narrow and so to open our
52:43
gaze and allow the whole experience to
52:47
fit inside of our field of awareness
52:52
automatically as the effect of shutting
52:56
off the thinking mind
53:03
it in itself is a dropping into being
53:09
there is an allowance a seeing of the
53:12
whole momentary experience as a creation
53:16
that is happening that I’m not
53:20
controlling I’m part of it so our gaze
53:24
can include the body the gaze if soft
53:30
enough means it’s peripheral vision we
53:32
don’t have to see in a lot of detail
53:33
what’s there but it’s a bit like we’re
53:36
watching a landscape with all the people
53:39
in Adana and and even the thoughts and
53:42
feelings and bodily sensations they all
53:44
make make up the momentary singular
53:47
experience that fits into our field of
53:50
awareness so simultaneous to the thought
53:58
I am that arises when there is a
54:02
recognition of the thinking mind at play
54:06
that can be a dropping into into being
54:10
that is assisted by an opening up of our
54:13
gaze and recognizing that the whole
54:16
momentary experience all of the visual
54:19
aspects all of the sound aspects touch
54:23
taste smell thoughts emotions are all
54:27
arising as a singular experience
54:35
no need for it to be labeled and that’s
54:42
the experience of life from the heart
54:47
and there is a separation that falls
54:52
away
54:53
separation is the separation that the
54:55
thinking mind creates of me and the
54:57
other me as the doer the other as the
54:59
doer me as an entity separate from the
55:06
totality of what’s happening in this
55:07
moment
55:19
now when you’re told that you’re not the
55:22
body for example well that you are that
55:27
life is an illusion these are
55:30
essentially different methodology
55:33
methodologies of cutting off their
55:35
thinking
56:06
Roger do you see effort involved at all
56:12
in this process in terms of
56:14
deprogramming or reprogramming or is it
56:18
all just dropping letting go
56:23
well these see it’s a great question and
56:30
often one-sided if someone is obsessed
56:34
with meditating then the answer is you
56:38
don’t have to do anything at all just
56:40
relax because the thinking mind is
56:44
taking the form of the doer of the
56:46
meditation and I’m going to get this so
56:49
I’m going to do it and so if if someone
56:53
was approaching it that this spiritual
56:56
seeking from that point of view the the
57:00
skillful means of the teaching is to
57:03
address what is actually getting in the
57:06
way the fact of the matter is that even
57:12
though shifts happen in a particular
57:14
moment and it’s sort of spontaneous and
57:16
it seems like it’s out of the blue the
57:19
reality is that it’s a culmination and
57:21
there’s many of these insights not just
57:24
one it’s a culmination of a process and
57:26
when those shifts happen we often don’t
57:30
relate to it as the result of a
57:33
culmination of a process because of the
57:35
qualitative nature of those insights and
57:37
shifts as it seems like it has nothing
57:39
to do with anything in the past um the
57:43
reality is that usually those shifts
57:45
have a lot to do with what has happened
57:47
in the past including the teachings and
57:49
what-have-you that have come before and
57:51
so like anything in like life because
57:55
life is a paradox the answer is peridot
57:57
peridot cycle is that there is effort
58:00
that needs to be made and then at
58:03
certain points along the way teaching
58:05
and going to tell you there’s no effort
58:07
that needs to be made but what they’re
58:09
really talking about is the effort of an
58:10
individual doer
58:12
so when the doer ship aspect falls away
58:16
the one who is desperately trying to
58:19
make it happen once we find that effort
58:23
happens effortlessly an effortless
58:27
effort and so the suggestion in this
58:29
teaching is meditate when you feel like
58:31
it in order to run interference with the
58:45
part of the thinking mind that has
58:50
become convinced then the outcome is
58:54
going to be a result of what it does so
58:59
if you meditate when you feel like it
59:00
doesn’t mean you’ll never meditate it
59:02
may mean you’ll never meditate at 6 o
59:04
clock in the morning
59:08
the strange thing I found is that once I
59:13
dropped the shoulds insurance which at
59:16
first seems like a very scary thing
59:19
because you think well if I drop all of
59:21
my shoulds and shouldn’ts I’m going to
59:23
become irresponsible I’m going to become
59:26
lazy and in fact the very opposite
59:29
happened we drop the shoulds insurance
59:32
which are all part of the thinking mind
59:35
because as we’ve spoken about the
59:36
thinking mind is convinced that it’s
59:38
completeness is to be found in outcomes
59:40
so it has a whole lot of shoulds
59:41
insurance in order to achieve the
59:43
outcomes that things will complete it
59:45
so those shoulds insurance are
59:47
essentially part of the foundational
59:51
structure of the identity belief system
59:54
and if we find the motivation to drop
60:02
shoulds or shouldn’ts which when we do
60:04
we find it so relieving because the
60:07
thinking mind is suffering when we find
60:12
the capacity to go beyond our shoulds
60:16
insurance which as I said seems scary
60:19
because we imagine that everything’s
60:21
going to go to pot if we do that
60:24
we find the complete opposite we find
60:27
that we don’t become irresponsible we
60:30
don’t become lazy lazy we become
60:33
efficient the natural biological
60:37
intelligence of the body is allowed to
60:39
then function without being obscured by
60:41
the controlling nature of the thinking
60:44
mind and so that’s one of the things
60:47
that I believe Einstein meant is that
60:50
you know the capacity of the brain the
60:53
capacity of the body the intelligence of
60:55
the body is immense and we just need to
60:57
look at things like the immune system
60:59
and the functioning of the brain what
61:02
intelligence was able to bring that into
61:05
existence and it’s part of our body
61:07
biological system that intelligence is
61:10
is in the complexity of the brain and
61:14
the thinking mind is is part of the
61:18
unintelligence you could say that runs
61:20
interference and the intelligence is
61:23
just waiting for the thinking mind to
61:25
get out of the way so it can function
61:28
yeah and so the as we’ve said yesterday
61:33
the the concepts in a way are an
61:38
anti-virus that you don’t need to you
61:43
know put a lot of effort into applying
61:44
the the fact that the information is
61:48
delivered means it is or it isn’t
61:51
according to destiny not according up
61:54
not in my control or your control
61:56
becoming part of the makeup and then the
61:59
makeup starts to function so the working
62:04
mind catches the thinking of the
62:07
thinking mind and sees it for what it is
62:09
the working mind will chime in when we
62:14
kick kick our toe it might say oh that’s
62:16
pain in the moment and seeing it for
62:20
what it is pain in the moment knowing
62:22
that pain in the moment is not an attack
62:23
on Who I am means the story that would
62:30
otherwise be there doesn’t happen but
62:33
that’s not something that we have to
62:34
become vigilant about we don’t have to
62:36
say okay so I have to be the
62:37
that now understands everything that’s
62:40
happening because that would be the
62:41
thinking mind claiming this job to do we
62:45
need to relax we go out no job to do
62:48
once you leave satsang go out and
62:51
automatically you taste some bad food
62:54
that same or some good food and the
62:57
thought will arise how this is pleasure
62:58
in the moment this is pain in the moment
63:01
so the change is already happening the
63:11
thinking mind is pretty sly though at
63:15
least that seems to be a big part of the
63:17
teachings and it will adopt strategies
63:20
to keep itself going
63:24
would you call things like laziness and
63:28
I don’t know what else but other way
63:34
other ways of of kind of contradicting
63:41
you know whatever the working mind as
63:45
you call it or or deep relaxation would
63:50
you just look at things like that as
63:53
ploys of the thinking mind or well how
63:58
do you see something like that because
64:01
laziness does happen in people and maybe
64:04
even on the spiritual path and so on
64:14
anything so where would you place things
64:17
like that because laziness you said
64:20
laziness will not happen if you are if
64:23
you are true to I spent years lying on
64:26
the couch just to put it in perspective
64:28
um I didn’t label it as laziness but
64:33
what I mean by laziness won’t happen is
64:35
that we won’t become exclusively lazy or
64:38
exclusively responsible that they’re
64:42
actually part of the biological
64:43
intelligence of the body is that if the
64:46
body is tired sleep rest
64:50
and along the way in this process I I
64:56
feel that because space is needed
65:00
because we often need to be pulled out
65:04
of our usual environment the historic
65:07
environment that we’ve sort of been
65:10
ingrained into based on the existing
65:12
beliefs that we had previously the a
65:16
space from that needs to happen in order
65:18
for a bit like an alcoholic being told
65:20
don’t go to the bar and and then there’s
65:25
also a whole lot of liberating of energy
65:29
in the body and beliefs in the body and
65:31
in a way like there’s the the biological
65:36
immune system and there’s them the leaf
65:38
immune system so when the energies that
65:41
are full of these do ership and
65:43
attachment beliefs start coming out of
65:45
of this of their hiding-places
65:47
the body requires a lot of energy to
65:51
deal with them and it can wipe us out
65:54
and so that wiping out is part of the
65:58
Intel it by illogical intelligence of
66:00
the body and so one of the attitudes
66:06
that can kick in when we really hear the
66:12
concept so there is the risk that the
66:15
thinking mind hears the concepts and
66:16
grabs hold of them and then the thinking
66:19
mind uses the concepts to further itself
66:21
but if the concepts really hit home and
66:27
for example we really say this shoulds
66:30
and shouldn’t I I am going to function
66:33
from a different place then the shoulds
66:35
and students then we start to become
66:38
biologically intelligent and that means
66:40
that if I’m tired I can find myself
66:44
instead of saying well I should push
66:46
through this and I should work even
66:48
though I’m tired something says no rest
66:53
and there will be consequences to that
66:56
then you look at it what are the
66:58
consequences and you’ll find that the
67:01
consequences really are
67:03
outcomes in the flow of life pleasure or
67:06
pain the thinking mind will say no this
67:09
is very bad there are going to be
67:10
consequences but maybe the consequences
67:13
are not as bad for us as we think so I’m
67:21
very much for adopting a new way of
67:26
functioning which is starting to feel
67:28
what I should do and let’s drop this
67:31
should taking instruction from the body
67:34
I came to see that as my instruction
67:38
from God that God was speaking me
67:42
through speaking to me through feeling
67:44
and I subsequently came to see that even
67:49
when we’re following our shoulds and
67:52
shouldn’ts that’s also God speaking
67:54
through to me it’s not that one is God
67:58
and the other isn’t in God it’s all the
68:01
movement of life whether we’re following
68:03
our shoes or shouldn’ts or our feeling
68:05
it’s still life but I came to see that
68:07
one is an instruction from life that
68:10
perpetuates an uncomfortableness and a
68:11
resistance with life the other is an
68:15
instruction with life that allows me to
68:19
drop out of the thinking mind and flow
68:23
much more differently and after the
68:26
initial sort of speed bumps and
68:32
inevitable disruptions that happen when
68:35
you move from one way of functioning to
68:38
another this efficiency came in the
68:44
sense of flow the sense of not being out
68:48
of line with life and I found actually
68:53
that the consequences that I imagined
68:57
would be there weren’t there in a
69:00
negative way that’s not to say I have to
69:04
clarify that if if someone starts doing
69:07
what they feel like it doesn’t mean it’s
69:10
a infallible
69:15
a way of flying through life doing what
69:18
you feel like isn’t going to suddenly
69:21
deliver pleasure pleasure pleasure
69:22
pleasure pleasure but it is a consistent
69:25
way that we can function that means that
69:27
if we consistently function this way and
69:30
we realize that the other ways a way
69:32
that creates all sorts of resistance and
69:36
lack of freedom this should and
69:38
shouldn’t say well if I’m gonna choose
69:41
one or the other I’ll choose this one
69:42
they’re still going to be pain because
69:45
I’m not in control of the outcomes but
69:46
at least I know that I’m consistently
69:49
functioning from a place that seems more
69:51
true to me and if we see someone with
70:02
this understanding that I’m talking
70:03
about essentially they are understanding
70:05
that in each moment each of us is doing
70:07
exactly what we’re destined to do
70:09
because each of us are designed by life
70:11
one way in each moment and the
70:14
circumstance we find ourself is one way
70:16
and therefore the reaction the response
70:20
whatever anyone does is the only thing
70:23
they can do in that circumstance based
70:25
on the circumstance as it is and their
70:28
particular makeup so if we see someone
70:30
being aggressive to an animal for
70:34
example we may well have a biological
70:37
response to that where we either are
70:41
scared to do anything about it or a
70:45
response where we interfere and say look
70:49
this is not acceptable to me stop it now
70:52
which one of those responses happen to
70:55
me is one sounds better than the other
70:58
but if we judge things like that we’re
71:00
going to get tracked kept in a trap
71:01
they’re two different responses that
71:05
happen that happen and if they happen
71:07
they happen because of our particular
71:09
makeup so in a situation where we see
71:14
someone acting that way if we understand
71:17
that I’m going to act a particular way
71:19
in a circumstance based on my genes and
71:21
up-to-date-conditioning I see that that
71:23
person is acting that way according to
71:25
their genes and up-to-date-conditioning
71:27
doesn’t prevent me from biologically
71:31
responding reacting one way or the other
71:34
I will I’ll either be quiet or I’ll say
71:36
something or I’ll run away scared or
71:38
whatever but afterwards the
71:41
psychological thinking that usually
71:45
extends horizontally in time isn’t there
71:48
no hatred for the other it was an event
71:52
that happened your response was an event
71:56
that happened and then it’s finished we
72:00
might think about the we might be sad
72:03
for animals that are treated this way
72:07
because we have a memory of the event
72:08
but the hatred to the other as the
72:13
independent entity that could or should
72:17
have done it differently that’s that’s
72:20
psychological and that’s part of the
72:22
load of guilt and blame and it doesn’t
72:26
serve a purpose because the event is
72:28
over what is important is that we still
72:32
have the capacity to act one way or
72:35
another so acceptance very much doesn’t
72:39
mean not doing something in the moment
72:43
acceptance means after we have done
72:46
something in the moment we accept the
72:47
outcome we might get punched in the nose
72:49
for interfering and that if we look at
72:54
it as all life unfolding becomes the
72:57
outcome we weren’t in control of it not
72:59
the outcome we would have liked and it’s
73:03
pain in the moment and we have to deal
73:06
with that and hopefully the
73:08
psychological hatred towards the other
73:11
doesn’t persist horizontally in time it
73:14
serves no purpose this doesn’t mean we
73:17
can’t go to the police and file a report
73:20
for assault against us the outcome of
73:23
that is not in our control in some
73:25
countries if you do that you end up in a
73:27
whole lot more trouble because you find
73:29
yourself in a big ring of confusion
73:34
this doesn’t mean we shouldn’t I’m
73:37
saying that acceptance means I accept
73:39
that this is the outcome and then what
73:42
next so I have no blame or hatred
73:45
towards the tenants that didn’t pay
73:47
money I still went to court and tried to
73:50
recover my money that way and the
73:54
outcome not in my control no blame or
73:57
hatred so if we see someone being lazy
74:01
or we see ourself being lazy
74:03
hopefully this attitude that can kick in
74:06
and say and doesn’t judge our self in
74:12
the same way that the thinking mind is
74:14
does
74:21
I never you I’ve been noticing a lot
74:30
yeah I mean I’m glad you bring it about
74:33
the working mind and thinking mind
74:35
because I’ve seen this for the last few
74:38
days a lot of back and forth especially
74:42
when you’ve been going to satsang you
74:45
know it’s a lot of new conditioning you
74:49
know so yeah so and and it’s almost like
74:54
a constant you know even I I think I
74:56
guess now that it’s a working mind
74:58
giving me more satsang you know I look
75:01
at this but you know look at it this way
75:03
you know it’s almost like you know
75:05
hearing one of the teachers but it’s
75:07
inside saying but have you thought about
75:09
it how do you think that you know so
75:12
it’s a little bit of a tiring dialogue a
75:15
little bit because then on the other
75:18
hand is the instruction of stop then
75:21
that’s when you say like it’s almost
75:22
like holding the breath there’s a lot of
75:24
tension on like everyone quiet you know
75:28
like but but yeah so I was wondering if
75:36
this is something you can tell me about
75:38
that all this I guess I’m working mine
75:44
talking about what’s going on yeah
75:51
talking about what the what the thinking
75:54
mine is doing and and yes so trying to
76:02
stabilize and trying to be helpful in
76:05
trying to to see how open trying to open
76:09
to see that there’s no shoots trying to
76:11
see the point the pointlessness of of
76:14
resisting what’s happening in the flow
76:17
of life so it so I think is helping it
76:22
is and it does get tiring at some points
76:25
and at some points when it gets tiring
76:27
we realize stop even this now is
76:30
becoming a new burden
76:34
but it’s important from my perspective
76:36
to say that that think that the working
76:39
mind is not all burden a lot of it is
76:45
really deepening the understanding that
76:48
is undermining the thinking mind so um
76:51
what is crucial here is to investigate
76:55
the concepts for yourself based on your
76:57
own experience if someone comes to
77:00
satsang listens to the concepts and
77:02
believes it and then in the course of
77:04
daily living there’s no investigating
77:06
for yourself it’s almost guaranteed will
77:09
have no effect because it’s just it
77:10
would be a belief system but if an
77:13
investigating for yourself of what is
77:16
described for example the flow of life
77:18
is always either pleasure or pain
77:20
pleasure if it’s in line with your
77:22
biological preferences pain if it’s out
77:24
of line with your biological freshmen so
77:26
that’s a description you need to tick it
77:29
off and say is it accurate and as you go
77:33
through life and you come across
77:34
circumstance after circumstance positive
77:37
pleasurable and painful you will tick
77:40
off and that means that the
77:41
understanding is going deeper and deeper
77:43
it starts off as intellectual you’ve
77:45
just heard it as a concept and over time
77:48
it becomes your own knowing of life of
77:53
the nature of life on earth on a surface
77:57
level flow of life level so that’s
78:00
essential for the deepening of the
78:03
concept we also need to know that taking
78:07
breaks even from the working mind is a
78:09
great relief and if we don’t we might
78:14
miss the point that the working mind is
78:16
only being conditioned to stop thinking
78:18
and once it cuts off the thinking mind
78:20
it too stops and we have the freedom of
78:24
no thought often during the day so if
78:29
you see that the working mind is
78:31
becoming tiresome you get the working
78:35
mind itself can say take a break yeah
78:39
and then you’re going to now what is the
78:42
work we’ve we’ve all heard of the suck
78:45
so the Satguru but do you know sadguru’s
78:49
your inner guru the outer guru is really
78:52
just there to get you on track
78:53
ultimately it’s the Sun guru that needs
78:57
to take over otherwise we become
79:00
dependent on being in satsang and
79:03
reading and thinking oh I need all the
79:06
information is outside actually the
79:07
information is inside so that working
79:14
mind especially when it becomes
79:16
spontaneous and especially when it can
79:19
it condenses a whole lot of thoughts
79:21
into something very brief because it
79:25
really knows it all
79:26
you know sense so like I am when the
79:29
thought I am came up forming when I was
79:33
at a phase where this practice you could
79:36
say but it was an effortless practice
79:37
because I didn’t have to do anything I
79:39
just had to live thinking mind would
79:43
arise the working mind would see it and
79:45
the thought I am would arise which
79:46
basically was reminder it was a bookend
79:48
to the thinking at whatever point of the
79:51
sentence the thinking was bookend which
79:55
said stop not important that thinking
79:58
isn’t going to win any Nobel prizes and
80:02
stop it’s not even going to help me be
80:05
efficient in my life stop drop into
80:09
being so the Satguru can become very
80:13
sharp so what takes hours of thinking at
80:19
first eventually gets condensed into a
80:23
sword very sharp sword
80:29
I’ve got the microphone so I’m new to
80:36
the sets in business I’ve only been to
80:40
one before and that was a couple of days
80:41
ago with your friend and it seems to me
80:47
that you started off being quite direct
80:52
about an idea of self-realization but
80:57
somewhere in there it turned into what I
81:01
might call therapy and that all of a
81:06
sudden we’re talking about having a
81:09
better life perhaps now I’m kind of
81:11
asking this as a question yes and if you
81:14
can address that because
81:18
self-realization to me is very very
81:21
clear kind of thing that happens and all
81:29
the rest of it about how to live your
81:31
daily life well as I said the other day
81:36
at this other one it’s like rearranging
81:39
the deckchairs on a sinking ship yes
81:43
that’s that’s how I view it I just
81:44
wonder if you’ve got anything you could
81:46
say to me about that yes it’s a great
81:48
question because it it allows for a
81:50
clarification because when we talk about
81:54
self-realization from this perspective
81:56
from the bottom-up perspective which
81:59
believe me I mentioned this when I went
82:01
to remission I heard this after having
82:02
been immersed in the teachings of Raman
82:04
and the saga Dada had profound
82:06
realization and was stabilized in the
82:08
sense of being I thought this guy’s
82:09
what’s he talking about this is
82:11
kindergarten spirituality this isn’t
82:13
even spirituality how wrong I was and so
82:19
your question allows for an elaboration
82:23
on why this is not therapy why this is
82:26
not trying to make us a better person
82:28
why this is not trying to improve our
82:31
life but I understand why it can be
82:34
heard like that until the explanation is
82:36
given hence you ask the question what
82:39
it’s saying is that life will unfold as
82:41
its destined to
82:42
fold that in each moment we are designed
82:44
one way we’re going to have our
82:46
shortcomings and our good points in each
82:48
moment what I’m speaking about here is
82:51
not becoming a better person at all what
82:55
we’re talking about here is our attitude
82:58
to what happens in the flow of life
83:00
which means that if I function according
83:04
to my makeup and the outcome is negative
83:07
painful to myself or to someone that I
83:09
like I have to accept that as part of
83:13
the flow of life the flow of life is
83:15
always going to unfold according to
83:17
life’s will not my will I’m a instrument
83:21
through which life happens so life
83:23
dictates whether I’m a better person or
83:26
not sorry just to interrupt you not not
83:31
suggesting about being a better person
83:33
because I think it’s relevant to me
83:37
anyway the idea of a better life that my
83:42
let’s just say somebody comes along and
83:44
your life really sucks and I’m miserable
83:46
and depressed and nothing’s working and
83:50
so the idea of addressing that yes by
83:56
way of well we can do this and this and
83:59
this and live just to live in a
84:01
different way as opposed to just that
84:05
very direct idea of realize itself and
84:10
all that it’s going to take care of
84:12
itself sooner or later even after a
84:14
substantial period of utter devastation
84:18
so it does accept when we look at it and
84:23
we really because often when you say
84:25
you’re new to the something you must
84:26
have been immersed in some teachings
84:29
prior to satsang right books yeah okay
84:33
because we can come up with we can have
84:36
this idea of liberation or enlightenment
84:39
or I’m seeking enlightenment at some
84:43
point we even realize I I’m not a seeker
84:46
because we see that the seeking itself
84:48
is an obstacle so we say I’m interested
84:52
in enlightenment it’s going to happen if
84:54
it’s going to happen or or not
84:56
right now say what is this enlightenment
84:59
in practical terms we we need to ask
85:04
this question otherwise we might be
85:06
waiting for some enlightenment that we
85:09
have an idea about to happen without
85:13
actually knowing what it is and so often
85:18
in the teachings which are all
85:21
methodologies and so if you put forward
85:24
a teaching I can tell you why that
85:26
methodology is applied what
85:28
psychological aspect it’s trying to undo
85:32
so some teachings will tell you it’s got
85:35
nothing to do with a better life that’s
85:37
the psychological trick of the teaching
85:40
in order to get you to stop being
85:43
involved in outcomes what is it so
85:48
they’ll even tell you before
85:49
enlightenment you were miserable after
85:51
enlightenment you’re miserable to get
85:54
rid of any expectation it’s not true
85:57
what’s the point of enlightenment if in
86:00
practical terms it delivers nothing no
86:05
thankfully enlightenment delivers
86:08
something very practical and so that’s
86:10
what the approach we take in this
86:13
teaching is to talk about what will I
86:16
have after enlightenment that I didn’t
86:18
have before once we’re clear on the
86:21
answer to that question what will I have
86:23
after enlightenment that I didn’t have
86:24
before we can start addressing the real
86:26
problem still psychologically in this
86:30
teaching it is apparent that we’re
86:36
addressing the psychology in other
86:39
teachings they’re addressing the
86:40
psychology in an indirect way which
86:42
often is very powerful to do certain
86:45
things but then leaves certain
86:48
shortcomings let’s say what was some
86:52
gaps and some things that need refining
86:54
you often have people that have realized
86:56
the self aspect and the person goes
87:00
around saying that there is no person
87:03
what there was falling away is the
87:06
belief in doer ship and attachment the
87:08
identity has
87:09
crumbled and because they’ve known
87:12
themselves as that identity the
87:14
experience is like I’m not there anymore
87:16
doesn’t mean there’s no person so
87:19
certain teachings will deliver the sharp
87:22
cuts they’re required but then there
87:27
needs to be some refining and that’s the
87:30
integration phase so in the Zen Zen
87:33
saying there’s a enlightenment or
87:35
awakening is spontaneous deliverance is
87:39
gradual so the awakening is one thing
87:43
the deliverance of what is practically
87:46
available after awakening is gradual
87:50
gradual process and to give us more of
87:52
hints along these lines I think your
87:55
questions is spot on to give us more
88:00
hints the scriptures say don’t mistake
88:03
understanding for awakening and don’t
88:05
mistake awakening for liberation they’re
88:08
all different phases along the way so
88:11
Awakening is not to be on misunderstood
88:13
for liberation liberation in my
88:17
interpretation my definition is the end
88:20
of suffering awakening is a phase along
88:24
the way where there is a realization of
88:27
an aspect of ourself a way of relating
88:28
to life a shift that wasn’t there before
88:31
and then from there that realization
88:35
needs to be integrated back into daily
88:37
living back into life so what is it
88:40
that’s available after enlightenment
88:42
that wasn’t there before the practical
88:46
answer that’s given is after
88:47
enlightenment suffering has fallen away
88:51
so so you seem to be quite happy to use
88:54
the word enlightenment which is a very
88:57
fuzzy word these days like the word god
89:01
and then every once awhile you’re
89:03
bouncing back between liberation and
89:06
self-realization whatever which it which
89:08
is fine with me but you do agree that
89:13
the word enlightenment the term is just
89:17
so broad and so fuzzy these days exactly
89:21
which is why when
89:23
are you enlightened we have to say well
89:25
what do you mean by enlightened because
89:28
some people’s idea of enlightenment is
89:30
that you transmute the physical body and
89:33
become light or whatever you know they
89:36
if you go into the range of spirituality
89:39
the different ideas of what
89:43
enlightenment are is huge so in this
89:45
teaching along the exact logic you’ll
89:48
bring up we have to say let’s define
89:50
what enlightenment in this teaching
89:52
means enlightenment in this teaching is
89:55
where the belief in personal doership
89:57
and and attach an attachment to outcome
89:59
has been seen to be a belief that is not
90:04
in line with the unfolding of life or
90:07
not in line with what’s actually
90:09
happening falls away and as a result the
90:13
load of guilt blame pride worry an
90:16
expectation that arose from that false
90:19
identity no longer has a foundation on
90:22
which to arise so enlightenment is the
90:26
end of suffering so what will I have
90:27
after enlightenment that I didn’t have
90:29
before you’ll still be the same
90:31
imperfect person with your good
90:35
qualities and your shortcomings you’re
90:37
still going to have to do what needs to
90:40
be done in the course of your daily
90:42
living outcomes still not in your
90:44
control sometimes positive sometimes
90:46
negative sometimes pleasure sometimes
90:48
pain but what will the absence is the
90:51
attitudinal load that was there
90:53
previously and so that’s the
90:56
enlightenment that I know is available
90:59
from my own personal experience because
91:02
the suffering has fallen away for many
91:05
many years even in the face of
91:07
significant events that we would call
91:11
painful ill health financial misfortune
91:17
relationship breakdowns deaths and so on
91:21
and I find that the pain is still
91:25
experienced biologically there is still
91:27
the human aspect and yet the
91:31
psychological resistance is no longer
91:34
there and so when we look deeply
91:36
into let’s say the Buddhist teaching
91:40
that’s enlightenment as enlightenment
91:45
goes you know the Buddha and for him
91:50
enlightenment is the end of suffering
91:52
the cause of suffering is desire the
91:57
cause of desire is attachment that’s how
92:01
he’s defined enlightenment as the end of
92:03
suffering and then when we look at the
92:06
Four Noble Truths the first noble truth
92:10
is life is suffering which is the
92:13
recognition that as I am as life has
92:17
produced us by and large the standard is
92:21
that life is suffering because life is
92:23
always pleasure and pain our self-image
92:26
is that I need life to be pleasure
92:29
pleasure pleasure which isn’t and it’s
92:30
never going to be and so life is
92:32
continually suffering that’s the first
92:36
noble truth the second noble truth is to
92:40
come across the information that there
92:43
is a way out of suffering then to the
92:48
third noble truth to understand the way
92:53
out of suffering and the fourth is to to
92:59
effectively the application of the
93:02
understanding of the way out of
93:03
suffering which leads to liberation
93:06
meaning the end of suffering so the
93:09
notion that enlightenment has nothing to
93:12
do with a better life in a sense I agree
93:14
it’s got nothing to do with being more
93:18
fortunate on a pleasure or pain
93:21
circumstantial level that’s part of your
93:23
destiny and enlightenment doesn’t
93:26
suddenly mean your destiny is going to
93:27
be pleasure pleasure pleasure you’ve got
93:28
sages that died very painfully from
93:32
cancer but it has to deliver something
93:36
beneficial something practical otherwise
93:40
really what’s the point
93:43
thank you very much you had to do I’m
93:52
just curious what you mean with or when
93:54
you say that the logical mind things
93:57
horizontally yes and also the concept of
94:05
the minds immune system because he said
94:10
there’s a body immune system and their
94:12
minds immune systems so he could and
94:14
clarify that a little bit ok so what I
94:18
was talking about is that the thinking
94:20
mind tends to function horizontally in
94:24
time meaning that there is a
94:27
circumstance and a circumstance is
94:29
always more or less vertical in time it
94:33
happens vertically in time our
94:36
biological reaction as part of the
94:39
circumstance happens vertically in time
94:42
so if someone were to come and push me
94:45
in a certain situation I don’t know how
94:47
I’m going to react because I don’t know
94:49
what my makeup is in that particular
94:51
moment but there will be a reaction and
94:53
that reaction in its primal sense is the
94:58
biological reaction and it happens
95:01
vertically in time and that reaction can
95:05
be to push back for example that’s not
95:07
an unenlightened that’s the biological
95:09
reaction of the body the psychological
95:13
reaction is always horizontal in time
95:15
and extends sometimes for days years
95:18
months lifetimes horizontal attitude to
95:24
something that happened vertically in
95:26
time that is finished a long time ago so
95:31
do you mean like the mind keeping
95:33
elaborating keeping like to sort out and
95:36
sort of cling to what happened instead
95:38
of just letting it go exactly that’s
95:40
that’s what the thinking mind does
95:43
because it relates to what happened as
95:47
intimately connected to
95:50
itself like if someone hurts it it takes
95:54
that as an attack on who it is and so it
95:57
doesn’t make sense
95:58
to let it go we can’t let it go it would
96:00
actually be disrespectful to the
96:03
identity to let something that hurt us
96:06
go because it was an attack on who we
96:09
believe ourselves to be so it can’t be
96:11
let go it gets extended in time like so
96:14
if I say drop it you cut the the
96:17
thinking mind can’t it’s personal
96:20
whereas when the thinking mind has
96:22
dissolved the event happened the
96:26
circumstance happens and then there’s
96:29
nothing that keeps it going horizontally
96:31
in time so the immune system of the
96:37
thinking mind would probably be this
96:40
reaction thing someone does that to me
96:42
and I react or the thinking mind would
96:45
react to defend itself
96:46
do you mean it like that no when I talk
96:49
about the immune system of of the body
96:53
it’s very clear you know a foreign
96:55
object comes in and the immune system
96:57
deals with it it’s very intelligent when
97:01
it’s when it when it’s working and in a
97:05
way as these concepts hit in what tends
97:10
to happen is the concepts start to
97:13
attack the opposite beliefs so the
97:18
belief I am the doer is ingrained in us
97:20
the notion that we are not the doer in
97:23
each moment we’re functioning according
97:24
to our makeup that is not in our control
97:26
is an attack on the thinking mind belief
97:33
and once our immune system our
97:39
psychological immune system is built up
97:41
enough it goes to work attacking the
97:43
thinking mind so it is like a antivirus
97:47
and life has to first build that immune
97:54
system up psychological one which you
97:57
call the working mind right are they yes
98:00
okay and if we try to solve this
98:03
while still essentially believing I am a
98:06
separate independent doer in control of
98:09
outcomes needing certain outcomes if we
98:11
try to deal with the thinking mind with
98:15
essentially the thinking mind nothing
98:18
happens in fact it just reinforces
98:20
itself which is why all the way along in
98:23
the concepts being put forward here
98:25
there are clarifications that hopefully
98:29
prevent the thinking mind from doing the
98:34
investigation and in time if in the in
98:39
the conceptual framework all of the
98:41
different forms of suffering are put
98:44
forward guilt blame pride worry
98:48
expectation and under those there are
98:52
subcategories or different expressions
98:57
of guilt for example lack of
98:59
self-confidence shame why why do they
99:02
feel depression why are they part of
99:08
guilt guilt means I’m not good enough
99:10
lack of self-confidence when you feel
99:13
lack of self-confidence it’s because
99:16
there is a sense saying I’m not good
99:18
enough I’m not up to scratch my hair
99:20
isn’t good enough my and so once it
99:27
becomes clear to us what all of the
99:29
forms of suffering are which is sort of
99:31
part of noble the noble truth to a noble
99:36
truth 3 understanding there is a way out
99:38
of suffering and understanding what the
99:41
way out of suffering is which includes
99:42
understanding all of the different forms
99:44
of suffering then if the thinking mind
99:47
kicks in and starts doing the seeking
99:53
which is ineffective it’s actually
99:55
reinforcing the thinking mind then it
99:59
gets picked up so as you said the
100:00
thinking mind will want to come in back
100:02
doors and it will it’s inevitable but if
100:06
the working mind has been conditioned
100:08
sufficiently it will pick that up in
100:10
time primarily because we get warned or
100:14
told
100:15
that the thinking mind is essentially an
100:20
uncomfortableness with oneself an
100:24
uncomfortableness with the other and
100:25
uncomfortableness with life so once we
100:27
become familiar with what this
100:29
uncomfortableness is the
100:30
uncomfortableness that disturbs our
100:32
peace of mind that if the thinking mind
100:36
has hijacked the concepts and is trying
100:41
to do them for example there will be an
100:43
uncomfortableness with that at some
100:45
point we go hang on is this
100:47
uncomfortableness what’s here and we’ll
100:48
see that the work the thinking mind has
100:50
an expectation of the end of suffering
100:52
for example and is trying to control our
100:55
thinking so that there’s no suffering
100:58
and the working mode see it and go stop
101:03
and we drop into being if the thinking
101:08
mind the suffering you know what Ramana
101:10
talks that calls the vasanas so I’m
101:13
we’re just using language it’s you take
101:15
the two teachings in little you’ll see
101:17
that they match if the vasanas are not
101:24
seen as that they carry on because
101:28
they’re there in the first place because
101:30
the system thinks they’re helpful thinks
101:33
they’re useful so they need to be
101:34
highlighted as errors and actually the
101:37
the obstacle to our freedom okay would
101:42
you put anger under bright then or why
101:44
would you put anger um well angers an
101:47
interesting one
101:48
biological anger is just vertical in
101:53
time and it’s a biological reaction it
101:55
is not suffering what is important to
102:01
know about anger is that because it’s
102:03
pain it’s an extreme both the
102:06
circumstance that creates anger is
102:08
painful and then anger as a biological
102:10
reaction is also painful not our
102:15
preference and because anger usually has
102:19
to do with quite a personal attack or
102:21
what seems like a personal attack the
102:25
pain of anger is quite an intense form
102:28
of pain
102:28
and because we’re attached to pleasure
102:32
and pain really mean attached to
102:33
pleasure and averse to pain which is a
102:36
psychological irrationality in a sense
102:38
right
102:39
because that’s the ingrained error let’s
102:45
say belief whenever anger arises the
102:48
likelihood is that when that attachment
102:51
to outcome is in place blame or shame or
102:55
expectation arises with the anger
102:59
simultaneous to it and we can’t see that
103:02
it’s – it just arises as a single
103:05
arising and it seems like it’s just
103:10
anger but it’s not the biological anger
103:12
is really quite inert it’s pain in the
103:16
moment it’s vertical and that’s it but
103:20
because it never arises independently
103:23
for as long as there’s attachment in
103:25
place
103:25
we only know anger as the combination of
103:28
anger plus a whole lot of suffering
103:30
anger plus guilt and anger plus blame
103:33
and hatred anger plus resistance to
103:37
outcomes and so what we know is anger is
103:41
not really anger it’s anger plus a whole
103:45
lot of simultaneously arising suffering
103:48
always as long as the attachment to
103:51
outcome is if the attachment outcome is
103:53
strongly in place say always because
103:56
that dynamic is there so that the pain
103:59
has to be accompanied by suffering if
104:02
the attachment to outcome is weakening
104:07
then you may start to find anger arising
104:12
without any suffering around it without
104:16
any hatred without any blame and so
104:18
someone says how what do you mean anger
104:20
so if I say don’t step on my foot no
104:25
what do you mean that doesn’t have blame
104:27
in it and I say well it doesn’t say it
104:30
does you’re blaming the person for stuff
104:32
University no that’s a biological
104:34
reaction to the fact that someone’s
104:35
stepping on my foot and it’s hurting and
104:38
it’s appropriate instead of you know I
104:41
use the example
104:42
day of my dogs about to run off and they
104:45
would have pulled me and cut my leg
104:47
because I was straddling some barbed
104:49
wire right and so when I saw that they
104:51
were about to run up I shouted oh if I
104:53
said to them dogs please don’t run
104:55
you know it wouldn’t work it’s not
104:57
appropriate in the situation
104:59
so anger doesn’t mean I’m blaming them
105:02
it just means the biologic the the blame
105:04
is is the horizontal in time that
105:09
extends sideways I think that’s just a
105:11
generator so the the blame is something
105:19
that he extends horizontally but it
105:22
starts simultaneously to the anger so we
105:24
never really know the anger independent
105:26
of the blame when we start knowing
105:29
independent anger independent of blame
105:31
ah it’s amazing that we can see that the
105:36
anger was accompanied by this blame and
105:39
we didn’t realize that there was this
105:40
psychological level around it um it just
105:45
so happened that that was for me that
105:47
was the last the thing that I just
105:51
couldn’t understand when Ramesh would
105:53
say anger is a biological reaction it’s
105:55
not suffering and I say look every time
105:57
I sit with anger I know I’m suffering so
106:04
I can’t accept what you’re saying I
106:06
can’t accept anger as a biological
106:07
reaction and not suffering and after a
106:11
certain period of time it clicked a
106:13
whole lot of things clicked and I
106:14
realized that I had an attachment to
106:17
anger not being there I had a
106:20
expectation that enlightenment meant the
106:22
end of anger and it doesn’t but for as
106:26
long as we have an expectation that it
106:27
does suffering is going to arise with it
106:30
and it’s going to feel like anger is
106:32
suffering but the suffering is actually
106:34
a sheath around the anger so would you
106:38
say that goes for all the emotions it
106:43
goes it goes for all of the biological
106:46
emotions and as far as the psychological
106:50
emotions go it’s important for us to see
106:53
that that is suffering
106:55
some of the psychological emotions but
106:57
to understand that those psychological
106:59
emotions are arising for the same in
107:01
principle reason as biological reactions
107:03
which is based on our genes and our
107:05
up-to-date-conditioning two factors
107:07
we’re not in control of so when the
107:09
suffering arises it’s good to identify
107:11
it as suffering but then the working
107:15
mind understands not to judge it not to
107:17
resist it
107:18
that’s a big one yeah they’re not
107:21
judging thing yeah for for me that was a
107:23
big one once that clicked and I was
107:24
sorted more or less yeah but which is
107:27
what you teaching by the way yes don’t
107:30
be attached to the outcome was like the
107:32
same it is more or less know that than
107:34
Oh as not judging exactly
107:38
yeah I feel that we need the brain needs
107:41
rationale at first as to stop a habit
107:44
and then once the habit stopped
107:46
enlightenment or freedom liberation that
107:49
isn’t about thinking it’s not about the
107:51
working mind continually rationalize
107:53
everything
107:54
rationalizing once it’s done its job of
107:56
undoing the thinking mind
107:59
there’s just no suffering to have to
108:01
deal with it stops arising and so then
108:04
it’s the the working mind has much less
108:06
to do the work in mind then doesn’t have
108:09
to deal with freedom from suffering
108:11
anymore it just needs to deal with into
108:14
human relationship and practicalities in
108:18
daily life which leaves a lot of space
108:23
in each moment to be so actually I’m
108:29
when I said like the I got this one
108:32
friend and his cat recently died and it
108:34
was like all sad he was like oh that’s
108:36
not fair and I try to explain to him
108:39
what a relief but sadness can be you
108:42
know like actually shedding tears can be
108:45
and he wouldn’t get it and and and I
108:48
think that’s what it’s all about a few
108:50
people allow your emotions to flow
108:52
through through you it’s like a
108:55
cleansing all the system of purification
108:57
of the system or purging in a sense
108:59
right and and when you let them flow
109:02
through you then the emotion will
109:06
disappear really really fast and that’s
109:07
what you probably mean
109:09
list like vertical vertical biological
109:12
emotions right yes oh and that’s what
109:15
used to happen with nosaka data I mean
109:17
he used to tell people to get out you
109:19
know it’s like what a stupid question
109:20
get out you’ve been here two weeks have
109:22
enough go you know and then it was
109:26
finished if the same person made a joke
109:29
which was the the thing he laughed at
109:31
the joke no it was over he’s biological
109:34
anger and so rum and I received this
109:37
information a friend childhood friend
109:40
had died a tear came to his eye and
109:43
rolled down his cheek there was an
109:44
emotion of sadness and then he clapped
109:47
his hand and he said lunchtime great
109:52
okay anyone else well actually on that
109:58
note we’re we’re running out of the time
110:04
but there’s another you know week and a
110:07
half where I’m here so if anything
110:09
resonated and you’d like to come back
110:11
feel free

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