01-13-2019 Roger Castillo – Being Lived ~ Live Stream from India

  • Holger 
Transcript

00:27
so for those of you who were here
00:30
yesterday welcome back again and anyone
00:33
new welcome and hopefully I see you
00:35
again over the next two weeks as a recap
00:40
which I will do every day and many times
00:44
throughout the talks the talks are about
00:47
something very specific and it’s
00:50
important to mention this because often
00:52
we can get sidetracked in thinking that
00:57
this journey is about all sorts of
01:00
different things and there are many
01:04
stops along the way and along the way
01:09
when we’re at certain stops that’s
01:10
what’s important
01:12
that’s what we’re focusing on but if we
01:15
can remember that ultimately everything
01:18
links in to an in an end in a way and
01:23
that end is human happiness happiness
01:26
for the human being in this life
01:29
something really practical we may
01:34
actually come to believe that we’re not
01:36
looking for that we’re looking for
01:38
something else something that we’ve read
01:41
a lot about or heard a lot about or
01:43
maybe we started to feel certain
01:47
sensations or shifts and someone might
01:51
hear well when they hear the statement
01:54
what we’re actually looking for whether
01:56
we realize it or not what this spiritual
01:58
journey is about is happiness for the
02:03
human being in this life and a thought
02:06
can go off no no no I’m not looking for
02:08
happiness I’m looking for truth or I’m
02:13
looking for any number of answers that
02:17
we might have and after seeking has
02:23
happened for long enough and the
02:26
flopping the returning of suffering has
02:28
come in often enough there’s maybe the
02:34
opportunity if we’ve been exposed to
02:38
this notion that actually
02:40
what we’re looking for is happiness that
02:43
after years of seeking and the suffering
02:45
is still there we might realize from our
02:47
own experience which is most important
02:50
in spiritual seeking to realize from
02:52
your own experience though Who am I
02:55
kidding I just want to be happy I’m and
03:00
then we’ll know what the happiness is
03:03
because this is also mentioned what is
03:05
the happiness the happiness is simply
03:07
the absence of suffering I’m not talking
03:10
about suffering the pain when you cut
03:12
your are your finger or the monotony of
03:19
having to get up every morning at five
03:20
o’clock in the morning to go to work
03:22
that’s pain and it’s part of the flow of
03:24
life we can deal with that when there’s
03:28
no suffering around it say yes it’s not
03:31
my preference but I don’t have a strong
03:34
resistance to it I don’t have a strong
03:36
uncomfortableness whether the suffering
03:39
is this uncomfortableness with life
03:42
uncomfortableness with ourself
03:43
uncomfortableness with the other that’s
03:45
a feeling that we know instant is part
03:48
of our internal landscape and when we
03:51
flop it was this process of and has this
03:53
flip-flopping nature to it for a while
04:01
what I suggest is the use of that
04:04
flipping flip flopping is for us to
04:06
realize when we’re in the flip we
04:09
realize ah this is it it’s no resistance
04:12
to what happens you know if someone
04:14
spills something on the floor it’s like
04:18
we saw broom roll with it it’s no
04:20
problem and it’s not just small things
04:23
like that we just we find that when
04:26
we’re in the flip phase we’re just not
04:29
in opposition we don’t feel attacked by
04:31
what is happening in the circumstance
04:33
and then we wake up one morning and we
04:36
know something’s different we can feel
04:39
it and as soon as anyone does something
04:43
that’s not in line with our preferences
04:46
there’s this strong resistance this is
04:49
shouldn’t be like this
04:51
and sometimes those flop phases become
04:56
very intense and that’s the opportunity
04:59
for us to realize and say this is I all
05:03
I want is the end of suffering that’s
05:05
what was there in the flip in the flip
05:08
phase there wasn’t any anything
05:13
remarkably different your circumstance
05:17
was more or less the same as it was now
05:21
when we’re in flop let’s say so
05:24
circumstance didn’t radically change it
05:26
it was just an internal switch that
05:29
meant we were aligned and at peace with
05:34
what was and there was still the natural
05:38
flow of life which was pleasure
05:40
sometimes and pain at others that’s not
05:43
magically going to change so that’s the
05:47
opportunities when we realize wow what
05:49
I’m really looking for in practical
05:51
terms is just happiness in daily living
05:54
and it turns out in practical terms that
05:58
this happiness is peace of mind and the
06:02
peace of mind is something that is
06:04
available on a continuous unbroken basis
06:06
a peace of mind that doesn’t just come
06:09
and go it’s a way of seeing life knowing
06:14
oneself and relating to life where there
06:17
is an internal ease even with the
06:20
prospect of dying when when illness and
06:26
death is upon us at some point if we’ve
06:33
grounded into and connected with that
06:35
part of ourself that is for a long part
06:39
of our life for some people all of their
06:42
lives unknown if we’ve connected to that
06:47
there is an ease even with dying for a
06:51
very simple reason the reason is that
06:54
the core of the human being is in itself
06:59
existence it’s
07:02
I am I exist in this moment and the core
07:07
of the human being which is existent so
07:09
we don’t need to think existence into
07:12
existence it is and I’m not talking
07:15
about the existence around us but I’m
07:16
talking about the fact that I am in this
07:19
moment if we rest there that’s what
07:23
we’re informed of the I am and that I am
07:29
aspect that core of what we are isn’t
07:33
missing anything it doesn’t have an
07:36
issue with the fact that it’s missed the
07:38
plane the thinking mind does the
07:42
thinking mind has a big issue with the
07:45
fact that it might be dying drop into
07:48
the being and it’s I am and the fact
07:54
that the I am might die we don’t know
07:57
that the I am carries on after death
08:01
when we bump into this I am and we
08:04
become when we know this oh this is the
08:08
the core of my being in life it doesn’t
08:16
tell us where it came from it doesn’t
08:19
tell us that it existed before I was
08:22
born and will exist after I die they’re
08:27
useful teachings to do a certain job at
08:32
some point we drop the teachings because
08:35
with this this core has been revealed we
08:39
know it intimately for ourselves and
08:42
when we drop in there it doesn’t mind
08:45
that it might not be tomorrow because it
08:47
is now
08:54
to the thinking mind this doesn’t make
08:58
sense because the thinking mind says yes
09:00
but isn’t it important that we think
09:02
about the fact we might not be tomorrow
09:04
that’s the sort of thing that the
09:06
thinking mind is particularly interested
09:09
in to the extent that a movement out of
09:13
the thinking mind has has happened a
09:16
pathway into the heart you could say
09:19
where we dropped out of our thinking
09:23
about life into a being to the extent
09:28
that that movement has happened we find
09:31
that there is this place we can reside
09:34
in our self that naturally by its nature
09:41
is at peace with life in this moment
09:44
regardless of the circumstance
10:17
so that piece on an unbroken basis is
10:22
available for the simple fact or reason
10:26
that our nature is what it is if our
10:30
nature was different then who knows um
10:36
if it’s going to be available or not but
10:39
we don’t need to worry about that
10:41
because the core of the human being is
10:44
what it is and what it is is something
10:48
that when it when we drop into ourselves
10:53
there is a relaxation a peace so the
11:08
question I’m glad you’ve come again we
11:14
could have the question and on the one
11:16
hand it’s a very valid question so how
11:18
do I do this
11:19
dropping into being if we’re talking
11:23
about it and we’re saying that it’s such
11:25
a saving grace and by and large life has
11:31
designed us to be out of touch with this
11:35
being I mean I’m speaking to a group of
11:38
people who have put aside some or a lot
11:42
of their life to be in a place like this
11:44
so I suspect that for a large percentage
11:48
of us here we have contact with that
11:54
place at least from time to time by and
12:00
large out in the world I think it’s fair
12:03
to say that life designs us and
12:06
conditions us and shapes us such that
12:08
we’re out of touch with that part of
12:12
ourselves and so the question – I’m
12:17
hearing all this or how do i how do I
12:22
become familiar with this part of myself
12:24
that has been forgotten
12:27
[Music] 12:31
and one of the more accurate answers is
12:36
that we can’t do it because we’re not
12:40
the ones that control life we don’t
12:45
control how we have grown and we don’t
12:49
control how we will continue to grow and
12:53
this movement is a movement that results
12:59
because change happens so the answer is
13:05
we will drop into our essence our being
13:12
when life has changed us such that this
13:16
happens but we won’t leave it at that
13:20
otherwise would say what’s the point of
13:21
being here life changes us by delivering
13:27
new information new conditioning by
13:32
bringing about a change that makes us
13:35
interested in things that we weren’t
13:36
interested in before and it might seem
13:40
on the one hand that I’m doing that well
13:42
I am the one that was interested in
13:44
coming to Tiruvannamalai and spending
13:49
time meditating and going to satsang and
13:54
this way of looking at life says well on
13:57
the one hand yes you were the one that
14:00
bought the airline ticket you were the
14:03
one that applied for holidays from work
14:05
or chose to retire to a new place but
14:09
why did that action happen the action
14:14
happened because life conditioned you to
14:19
in that moment choose that option if
14:23
life had impacted you different ways if
14:27
certain books hadn’t have come across
14:29
your path if certain people haven’t had
14:32
come across your path if your experience
14:35
your inner experience was different and
14:37
it didn’t drive you to ask certain
14:40
questions
14:40
then you’d be in a very different
14:42
situation in life and you may make
14:44
different choices so what this is
14:48
suggesting is that all of life is
14:50
completely predetermined and we are part
14:55
of the predetermined creation of life
14:58
and then in each moment we will act and
15:03
function and choose exactly what is
15:08
destined to be acted or chosen yes sure
15:17
just for the sake of the recording if
15:19
you can use the microphone then you say
15:24
but then you say please for the sake of
15:28
the recording if you say everything is
15:32
predetermined but then like a minute
15:36
later you said like but we still have
15:37
the choice you know I see there’s a gap
15:42
and in there between like if we do have
15:44
a choice it’s not predetermined or what
15:47
would you say that it’s predetermined
15:49
like we experience like an a certain
15:53
thing or whatever in life but it’s our
15:56
choice how we experience that or how do
15:59
you you know your close the gap in
16:01
between
16:02
yes very they they appear country but
16:06
they’re actually complimentary so if you
16:10
can keep the microphone because we’ll
16:12
have a discussion so choice because of
16:20
the way that we’ve come to see ourselves
16:23
when we use the word choice we say my
16:26
choice that’s how we relate to language
16:30
so when we hear the word choice
16:32
straightaway we we imagine choice means
16:35
the choice belonging to this separate
16:38
independent entity this entity that has
16:41
complete control and volition so when we
16:44
hear the word when we hear were choice
16:45
now actually we can see a computer makes
16:49
choices Facebook
16:52
which adds to put in front of us and it
16:56
chooses those ads based on algorithms so
17:00
choices don’t necessarily imply personal
17:04
do ership a choice is simply a mechanism
17:09
a process of picking one of many options
17:13
so if we are presented with a menu at a
17:17
restaurant there are ten food items on
17:19
the menu at a certain point one is
17:24
picked and so that is the point at
17:26
choices made now in this theory we say
17:31
that that choice was made based on your
17:35
genes and up-to-date-conditioning main
17:37
means made by the instrument the
17:40
biological instrument that we all are in
17:41
a particular moment yes the ego
17:45
precisely not the ego as the ego that
17:50
will one day dissolve the ego doesn’t
17:54
dissolve we are the ego yeah we need
17:57
that yes yeah
17:59
what dissolves is the belief in personal
18:02
do ership that is part of the ego so the
18:07
change is that we start off being an ego
18:10
with the belief in personal doership
18:12
and after this process we remain an ego
18:18
but with the belief in personal doership
18:21
being completely eradicated where there
18:24
is knowing that i am an instrument
18:28
through which life functions and that
18:32
what happens is a happening but not my
18:36
doing and that the choices that were
18:41
made were all part of the predetermined
18:43
story of life so that means that life is
18:46
completely predetermined from beginning
18:48
to end however the mechanism by which
18:50
the predetermined story unfolds is
18:54
decision making and choice not the
18:57
decision-making end choice of a separate
18:59
independent entity but the choices that
19:03
were
19:04
than to happen according to the overall
19:06
story and in practical terms because the
19:10
overall story puts certain genes and
19:12
up-to-date-conditioning in place such
19:14
that exactly the choice that is
19:16
predestined to happen happens so okay so
19:21
it’s not exactly exactly a free choices
19:24
when the mind is concerned perfect so
19:28
what it says is that we have choice
19:31
there is choice that is the mechanism by
19:35
which life unfolds but it is not my
19:39
choice then it’s it is the choice that
19:46
is part and parcel of all of life so
19:50
where does a choice start this is the
19:53
thinking mind wants to put a circle
19:54
around an event and say oh it started
19:58
when I walked into the restaurant or
20:00
actually my choice started at the point
20:03
I sat at the table or my choice started
20:06
at the point when they gave me the menu
20:07
or my choice started at the point when I
20:10
started looking at the options so these
20:14
are arbitrary ideas that the mind says
20:18
on when the choice process started if we
20:22
look at it we might find that odd choice
20:25
the choice of picking you know Dow
20:30
doesn’t have a starting point you could
20:34
say it started when we were conceived
20:37
but then if we look at it like that was
20:39
that well it started when our parents
20:41
were conceived or it started when the
20:44
Big Bang happened because at the point
20:47
of making a choice the human instrument
20:51
is a result of everything that came
20:54
before so the choice is not separate
20:59
from everything that came before okay
21:06
I guess it kind of makes sense so would
21:14
you say that like everything is
21:16
predetermined like there’s a certain
21:17
life plan that is already there when
21:21
we’re born and we just jump into it or
21:23
is it like this parallel reality thing
21:25
where everything exists at the same time
21:28
and we just jump into it and if we make
21:31
another choice we jump into something
21:33
else and how does this go together with
21:36
it being predetermined so the
21:41
explanation is that consciousness or
21:44
source in its potential form before the
21:47
universe existed yeah
21:49
pure potentiality at some point because
21:53
it is potential has to actualize has to
21:57
become yes so it goes from unmanifest to
22:02
manifest and the manifestation for all
22:06
intents and purposes we might as well
22:08
say there is just one manifestation now
22:10
that one manifestation might include
22:13
many universes but for simplicity we
22:16
might as well just say there is one
22:17
manifestation one universe it doesn’t
22:21
matter if there are many universes or
22:23
one the point is we are in this one and
22:27
we’re looking for happiness for this
22:29
human in this universe so understanding
22:34
the complexity of the manifestation is
22:39
not something that the human intellect
22:40
can ever do it’s interesting though I
22:43
like to ponder oh yeah it could also
22:46
take you off a focused approach to the
22:50
search not to say I agree it is
22:53
interesting and it is interesting to
22:55
talk about it as long as we come back to
22:58
the point actually I don’t mind if we
23:02
come back to the point of no no no we
23:03
think I’m suggesting I’m suggesting it
23:06
for for seeking in general because if we
23:09
don’t come back to the point of
23:10
happiness in daily living then we can go
23:14
off into years and years of thinking
23:17
about
23:19
certain things that actually at the end
23:22
of the day aren’t so relevant to what
23:23
we’re really looking for but can’t you
23:25
be happy and still wonder and ponder
23:27
upon these things you yes very much but
23:30
you’re part of the happiness is based on
23:35
the understanding I don’t know I can’t
23:38
know so many things about life yeah okay
23:42
that’s totally fine but I still like to
23:44
you know I find it very entertaining too
23:47
but your question is valid because it’s
23:50
about the concept of predetermination
23:53
yeah yeah yeah so I’m not really like
23:56
sure if I totally agree on that so maybe
23:59
if you could yeah so the question is why
24:04
is predetermination or coming to see
24:09
life as predetermined why is that
24:14
significant to this question of human
24:16
happiness oh I guess it’s not well I’d
24:21
suggest it is on the basis that human
24:25
unhappiness arises in the form of guilt
24:30
blame pride worry and anxiety
24:34
expectation and attachment to outcomes
24:36
they’re the five forms of human
24:39
unhappiness
24:39
now don’t believe me now these are all
24:42
as we spoke about yesterday they’re
24:44
pointers their concepts their
24:45
descriptions so one of the forms of
24:50
human unhappiness is blame as described
24:53
you know under under blame there are a
24:54
lot of subsets resentment hatred
24:57
jealousy simple blame for someone
25:05
leaving the door unlocked or whatever
25:07
and we need to see this for ourselves
25:12
when we’re blaming someone we need to be
25:16
able to say in this moment I’m not happy
25:18
and look and we’ll see one of these five
25:21
forms of suffering and it turns out that
25:25
human happiness
25:26
the thing that oh you actually you
25:27
walked in a little light so you might
25:29
have missed
25:30
the very beginning which was the talks
25:33
are about something very specific the
25:35
thing that we are really looking for in
25:38
life happiness yes whether we realize it
25:41
or not is happiness and happiness turns
25:43
out to be something very different to
25:45
what we seem to have been programmed
25:49
with the idea the idea that we’ve been
25:52
programmed with is my happiness will
25:53
come when my circumstance is perfect
25:56
pleasure pleasure pleasure outcomes and
25:59
it turns out that human happiness is
26:02
actually just peace of mind being at
26:05
peace with the circumstance as it
26:07
unfolds yeah sure no doubt about that
26:09
yeah okay I think we’re finished with
26:11
this predetermination discussion right
26:14
here because I’m really interested in
26:17
that
26:20
well I’ll carry on a little bit because
26:23
there’s a relevance here that there five
26:27
forms of suffering as I mentioned guilt
26:33
blame pride worry and expectation
26:35
human happiness is the absence of the
26:39
arising of those forms of suffering and
26:42
if we come to see life as completely
26:46
predetermined now I don’t mean believe
26:48
it I mean understand and see the
26:53
dynamics which we can point at and see
26:56
of course everything is happening
26:58
according to a much bigger movement than
27:02
me or the other we are part of that
27:04
bigger movement our very thoughts are
27:07
very actions are all determined by
27:12
things that came before I’ve never been
27:14
insulated from anything from life I’ve
27:19
always been part of what’s happened
27:21
before so if we can come to see that
27:26
even the tragedies are part of the
27:30
predetermined story of life
27:39
sure yes yes they shape us indeed they
27:46
have part of our up-to-date-conditioning
27:49
so if we see this then the psychological
27:52
movement of blaming someone falls away
27:58
yeah because we we see how can I blame
28:02
someone who was an instrument who was
28:04
part of the creation playing their role
28:07
exactly as source has created well yes
28:17
even to it to add in when you need it
28:20
well is because really if we take even a
28:25
bigger perspective it came in when it
28:27
was destined to come in whether it’s
28:32
actually positive for us or not is
28:34
another question but even that falls
28:37
away it’s not about whether it’s
28:38
positive or not it’s it it is it
28:41
happened and it didn’t happen because
28:43
this separate independent entity of
28:47
their own volition chose to hurt me it
28:52
happened because it was part of destiny
28:55
overall and therefore part of my
28:57
personal destiny to be hurt and that
29:01
person was the instrument through which
29:03
my destiny was delivered do you think it
29:15
makes sense in that minute when
29:17
something happens to you which for
29:19
whatever reason you were not really
29:21
happy with for example this morning I
29:24
walked into a temple I left my shoes
29:26
outside two minutes later they were gone
29:28
and it was actually turned out it was a
29:31
Pandit of the temple that took them
29:33
something really incredible to me a well
29:36
long story short and cut short and
29:39
should I or do you think it makes sense
29:42
to ponder on why this thing had had
29:46
to me because it’s really interesting I
29:48
don’t see a love meeting in it but it
29:52
must have some right I mean this is just
29:54
like one example or do you think it
29:56
would rather make sense to let it pass
29:58
and not look not even look at it like a
30:02
fly passing by well if the thinking
30:06
causes suffering ok oh yeah causes an
30:11
uncomfortableness with what is with what
30:15
has happened and usually if that’s the
30:19
case then the thinking is either guilt
30:21
or blame or pride or worry or
30:23
expectation or anger that will probably
30:28
fit under the blame category yeah blame
30:32
you for taking my shoes yeah you
30:34
shouldn’t touch my property yeah even if
30:37
I stick it in the wrong spot
30:39
yeah or oh I shouldn’t have stuck it in
30:43
the wrong spot and we feel guilt and
30:45
this is the consequence you know I
30:46
always do things that I if that thinking
30:51
is arising its disturbing the peace that
30:55
true he’s potentially available in the
30:58
moment so we could say that that
31:00
thinking is not optimal yeah the
31:05
thinking actually resulted in me getting
31:07
my shoes not not the thinking but the
31:08
action that I followed along you know it
31:11
resulted in me getting my shoes back you
31:14
know what I have just thought you know
31:16
like let it pass and rather be happy I
31:18
wouldn’t have shoes now well what we can
31:21
do is if we see that there’s no benefit
31:23
in thinking along the lines that creates
31:26
suffering although it’s not entirely in
31:29
our control so I’m not suggesting that
31:31
we can just choose one or the other hmm
31:34
but once we see that this type of
31:36
thinking is the disturbance of our peace
31:39
of mind yeah that doesn’t mean that we
31:42
can’t take action based on a biological
31:47
response the working mind that can go
31:50
and ask where my shoes are without
31:51
feeling this load of guilt okay very
31:55
difficult though that one
31:57
well actually it’s impossible and
32:00
our makeup allows us naturally to
32:03
function that way so the theory here
32:05
says that we will only function the way
32:09
we are designed to function which is
32:11
part of destiny and so my response just
32:15
now is not telling you that you
32:16
shouldn’t blame because that would be me
32:21
telling someone that is designed a
32:24
particular way to act the way that I
32:26
think they should act oh yeah you know
32:29
I’m not suggesting that you should or
32:31
shouldn’t blame I’m saying that if we
32:33
blame we might be able to catch it and
32:36
see that it’s not an optimal way of
32:39
functioning but what the doer one tends
32:43
to do is it it hears that it’s not
32:45
optimal so then the doers is well I want
32:48
optimal and how do I get optimal hmm
32:54
so I’m not saying that when I describe
32:57
it as optimal I’m not saying that
32:58
optimal is necessarily available mmm
33:01
it’s potentially available but it will
33:05
only happen if life brings about
33:08
sufficient change that then the thinking
33:12
mind subdues on its own and you just be
33:17
accepting on going along with whatever
33:19
that would be the outcome you don’t do
33:21
accepting mmm accepting is the absence
33:25
of non accepting okay when when the non
33:31
accepting doesn’t arise we find that we
33:34
are accepting it’s it’s the absence of
33:50
so if something is manifesting so I
33:54
don’t have to accept it because it’s
33:56
already accepted by by my existence but
33:58
yet by molarity yes and then the non
34:01
accepting comes in in on the layer of
34:04
the thinking mind so when the thinking
34:08
mind falls away we see everything is one
34:11
everything has its place naturally has
34:15
its place even if it’s pain in the
34:19
moment even if it’s an accident on the
34:23
road it doesn’t defect it has its place
34:25
doesn’t mean it’s but it’s pleasurable
34:29
but if we understand that the nature of
34:31
this life the nature of this
34:33
manifestation is duality interconnected
34:37
opposites male-female hot cold big small
34:41
wealth poverty health disease so when we
34:45
see these interconnected opposites the
34:48
good and the bad we understand that is
34:51
the nature of life and so both the good
34:55
and the bad the broad extremes are
35:00
accepted by existence as in existence
35:04
has become the interconnected opposites
35:07
the duality and it’s only the thinking
35:10
mind that creates non acceptance so I
35:16
have another question that’s related yes
35:18
and also to the subject of a free will
35:21
the subject of love we will free of
35:24
choice okay so so let’s say suffering of
35:30
some resistance arises in the mind in
35:36
consciousness so would it be effective
35:41
to as a way to deal with it to in a
35:45
sense
35:46
resort resolve it back into our wareness
35:48
into the space of if you have of course
35:51
access to it to the space of the
35:54
unchanging awareness of a sense of
35:57
identity that is
35:59
untouched by this and then let it
36:02
dissolve in a sense in this space
36:04
without even like really looking quietly
36:07
into it or something like this and and
36:11
also does it the real like a choice
36:13
between like identified identifying with
36:16
the senses in the world and identifying
36:19
with the unchanging awareness that I am
36:21
is it like is it a choice that I can
36:25
make it’s not very ardent resistant okay
36:31
so everything according to this concepts
36:35
that remember this is anything that is
36:38
put forward is a concept not the truth
36:41
very important any teaching is a concept
36:45
not the truth the only truth is the
36:49
impersonal sense of I am that is
36:52
undeniable if we drop in this way
36:54
I exist now anyone who comes up with an
37:00
argument with I exist is talking
37:03
philosophy so when we drop all
37:06
philosophy and we just drop into our
37:07
being whether this is a dream
37:10
whether it’s or whether it’s an
37:13
objective reality is irrelevant in a way
37:15
we say well I am now everything
37:22
including the fact I am is within the
37:24
manifestation and therefore is part of
37:27
the predetermined nature of life so if
37:30
we find ourselves dropping into being
37:34
it’s part of the predetermined story of
37:39
life if we find ourselves with an
37:43
attitude of acceptance which really
37:45
means the falling away of the attitude
37:47
of non acceptance it’s also not our
37:51
choice but are happening and dropping in
37:55
and what we can call identifying with
37:58
the formless awareness that is
37:59
unaffected by what happens in
38:01
circumstance is something that the body
38:04
the person can become proficient at a
38:09
movement from
38:10
head to the heart can happen because a
38:14
pathway let’s say between the head and
38:16
the heart gets established over time and
38:20
something that had never happened in our
38:23
life happens once and then it doesn’t
38:26
happen again for a while and then it
38:28
starts to happen more and becomes more
38:31
regular and then we find that this
38:32
dropping into being can be something
38:35
that happens whenever there’s suffering
38:38
arises we remember I forgot because
38:41
suffering is indication that we have
38:45
forgotten our true nature and so if the
38:49
suffering arises that can act as a
38:51
reminder I’ve forgotten we find
38:53
ourselves just drifting back into the
38:55
heart very effortlessly and it can seem
38:59
like it’s my doing but when we look at
39:05
it we see it like everything else just
39:07
like it can seem like it is my doing to
39:09
go to the fridge and choose to make a
39:12
sandwich when we understand how all of
39:15
this happens we say well it’s happening
39:18
because of my genes and
39:20
up-to-date-conditioning my makeup that I
39:22
am hungry the the feeling of hunger
39:25
arose I didn’t create that feeling of
39:27
hunger it happened as it just happened
39:30
and the fact that that happened then
39:33
driven me to the fridge and then when I
39:36
opened the fridge based on my
39:38
preferences I see avocado and I see
39:41
Brussels sprouts and nothing else and I
39:46
go for the avocado because of my
39:49
preferences which are part of my genes
39:51
and up-to-date-conditioning and so on
39:54
the one hand we say it feels like my
39:57
choice which is great because if it
40:00
didn’t feel like my choice we would feel
40:02
like puppets at the end of a string so
40:05
this feeling that is my choice needs to
40:08
be registered it feels like I chose it
40:13
when we see the dynamics we understand
40:16
on a deeper level that life designed me
40:20
a certain way to make that choice
40:22
I couldn’t have chosen a
40:23
differently and so to the question of
40:27
free will do we have free will and the
40:31
answer in this teaching framework is yes
40:33
we have complete free will in the moment
40:36
to do whatever we think or feel like
40:39
doing so when I heard Ramesh say this I
40:42
went to see Ramesh with a deep seeing
40:46
that life was not my doing that life was
40:50
happening a witnessing perspective was
40:53
deeply ingrained and the body was seen
40:56
as moving the words were seen as
41:00
happening the thoughts were seen as
41:01
happening so when he explained the core
41:06
of the theory everything is
41:08
predetermined I had no problem with that
41:11
then he said and we have complete free
41:14
will in the moment to do whatever we
41:17
think or feel to do and I said hang on
41:20
yeah we don’t have free will because
41:25
everything’s predetermined and he said
41:28
this is about one of the six things six
41:31
significant things that I had issue with
41:33
and he just said Roger we have complete
41:37
free will in the moment to do exactly
41:40
what we think or feel to do I said but
41:43
but Ramesh okay maybe so I said we had
41:46
these the argument the argument that I’m
41:48
sure many people are on my side for you
41:50
know how can it be predetermined and we
41:52
have free will they’re contradictory
41:54
that’s what I thought I turns out that
41:58
he’s right after a certain amount of
42:02
contemplating eyes we see that they’re
42:03
complimentary they’re not opposites now
42:06
how are they complimentary we need to
42:09
rejigger definition of free will because
42:12
if we have a definition of free will
42:14
that says the free will belongs to me as
42:18
a separate independent entity in control
42:21
then that free will doesn’t exist
42:23
because I’m not a separate independent
42:25
entity in control I’m part of the whole
42:27
manifestation never insulated from it
42:31
completely designed to be the way I am
42:35
in this man
42:35
and therefore to function the way I
42:39
function so a separate independent
42:41
entity does not exist so if we think
42:46
that free will is something that belongs
42:48
to a separate independent entity that
42:50
freewill doesn’t exist
42:51
so why was an Ramesh would put forward
42:55
that same argument so then why does he
42:58
say that we have complete free will in
42:59
the moment to do exactly what we think
43:02
or feel to do and the reason is that
43:05
what’s important is a first for us to
43:08
see what is not to get lost in
43:11
philosophy and the fact is that the
43:15
feeling of free will is very much part
43:19
of the experience and even after
43:23
realization if you want to call it that
43:26
or whatever the significant changes
43:29
thankfully the feeling of free will
43:31
remains and that feeling of free will is
43:34
that in the moment we are free in
43:40
experience that’s saying to move to the
43:46
left or to the right in practice now
43:49
theoretically we’ve discussed whether
43:52
you move to the left or to the right is
43:54
part of what’s predetermined so I
44:00
understand and someone will have this
44:01
issue but so then we’re not free because
44:04
it’s predetermined and it does come down
44:08
to rejigging our definitions of words
44:14
and you will be surprised at how
44:16
significant our language in our head is
44:22
in relation to freedom a lot of the
44:28
shift actually comes when our language
44:31
is redefined so when I start talking
44:35
about language and definitions people
44:37
suddenly think no this is not high level
44:41
spirituality when we start to see the
44:44
what keeps us resisting its beliefs and
44:49
IRA are essentially concepts that have
44:52
been held as truth and the concept like
44:55
the Apple is red for example has words
44:58
in it and words all have their
44:59
definitions so if we can understand
45:02
reject some of the words we’ll
45:04
acknowledge that in the moment I can’t
45:06
deny that there is a feeling of being
45:09
free and so that is the freewill that
45:13
Ramesh talks about if we don’t
45:14
acknowledge that people might say well
45:17
if it’s all predetermined what’s the
45:19
point I’m going to just sit here and
45:26
that’s because the mind has interpreted
45:28
what predetermination means which in
45:30
practice is very different to
45:32
predetermination because the
45:33
predetermined story includes the feeling
45:36
of free will in the moment and requires
45:38
the individual to function according to
45:43
their maker which means to essentially
45:47
move according to whatever you think or
45:51
feel so then we come back to this point
45:54
yesterday that everything here is a
45:56
description not a prescription so when
46:00
it said that we have complete free will
46:03
in the moment to do whatever we think or
46:06
feel to do we see that is a description
46:09
of how life in experience unfolds so
46:14
what we’re trying to do here is see that
46:17
there is a layer of the experience where
46:22
we feel like we are the doers but then
46:25
deeply understand that our experience of
46:30
life feels one way but the mechanics are
46:35
such then we are not to do it so we can
46:39
hopefully come to hold this beautiful
46:42
paradox together so is there anyone who
46:49
well I would ask this question because
46:51
our mind can do all sorts of things so I
46:54
won’t ask it more as a rhetorical
46:56
question so if you come to feel even if
47:00
you see that the body is just moving or
47:02
matically there is still this beautiful
47:06
sense that I’m free in each moment to do
47:10
exactly what I think or feel to do that
47:19
felt like I did it because I felt like
47:22
doing it so we had a couple of questions
47:29
the dropping into formless awareness is
47:34
that our choice no it’s something that
47:37
happens that’s the concept that is put
47:39
forward here and it like everything else
47:42
once we become designed a certain way it
47:46
happens because we’re designed sin and
47:49
it feels like we’re doing it and there’s
47:52
no problem with that but the the
47:54
technical answer is it’s not something
47:56
we choose of our own independent
48:00
volition because that independent
48:02
volition doesn’t exist so that too is
48:06
part of the predetermined story of life
48:08
your other question was is it valid to
48:11
drop into that formless being allow the
48:14
suffering to dissolve without doing any
48:16
inquiry and I would say exclusively if
48:19
that was the exclusive practice let’s
48:22
say or movement I would say no it’s not
48:25
sufficient however it is one of about
48:29
three or four different movements that
48:32
need to become available and need to
48:39
happen intermittently and which one
48:43
happens at which time is not so
48:45
important for us to control rather just
48:49
to know that there are three or four
48:51
different movements that all combine
48:54
together to bring about the deepening of
48:56
the understanding is important so one of
48:58
the movements is the one you mentioned
49:01
where there is suffering and we remember
49:04
to just drop into our being and at first
49:08
it might be just witness the suffering
49:10
and
49:13
if it’s destined that suffering just
49:16
dissolves and we can then from that
49:19
perspective start to see that the
49:21
suffering is not real in a sense that
49:24
this witnessing presence is much more
49:27
real than the suffering the witnessing
49:30
presence is there all the time the
49:31
suffering arises and it dissolves so if
49:34
it dissolves we can say it’s not real
49:36
because if it was real it wouldn’t
49:38
change so that’s a very important
49:44
movement at remembering dropping into
49:47
our core being why I say it’s not
49:51
sufficient exclusively is what tends to
49:54
happen is that the deep roots on which
49:58
the suffering actually arise from don’t
50:01
very efficiently get addressed by doing
50:05
that and so what you can find is you
50:09
might have access to that place you
50:12
might actually find that you can be
50:14
there consistently except for when
50:19
you’re out in daily life and then things
50:23
happen and we find that the
50:25
understanding goes out of the window the
50:27
suffering arises and at best we find
50:30
ourselves having to keep dropping back
50:31
into being and then we get pulled out
50:33
again and we drop back in and it gets
50:36
tiring and so I’m not saying that it’s
50:42
not important it’s very important to
50:43
come in contact with that place and that
50:45
movement but we’ll find that if that if
50:48
the route isn’t investigated then we
50:52
keep getting drawn out again and it gets
50:54
very frustrating why why do I keep
50:56
getting drawn into involvement and the
50:59
answer is because the deeply ingrained
51:01
beliefs in the system haven’t been seen
51:07
and dissolved and so those beliefs
51:12
usually require a counter concept to
51:17
like the belief in personal doership and
51:19
a counter concept that says no you’re
51:21
not the doer and when you blame someone
51:24
and you get dragged out into
51:26
lame notice that the blame essentially
51:30
is saying you as a separate independent
51:32
doer you as not part of life as a whole
51:35
but you as the one that chose to hurt me
51:38
and you could have and you should have
51:40
chosen differently that’s what is that
51:44
the blunt at the core of the blame and
51:45
if we don’t have a concept that
51:48
addresses the core of the blame and we
51:50
just keep dropping into being the blame
51:52
dissolves because it’s not real but it
51:54
will keep coming up so that’s the second
51:58
of the do another one something that has
52:02
in Advaita coming from top-down
52:03
teachings because they need to deliver
52:07
us in order for this dropping into being
52:09
to happen for example the methodology
52:12
needs to be quite specific and it can’t
52:19
suggest certain things and that is to
52:24
feel to do the opposite of witnessing in
52:28
a sense and usually this feeling is
52:32
important once the witnessing has
52:34
settled in that’s why in a lot of
52:38
Advaita teachings they said don’t worry
52:39
about the personal going into the the
52:44
energies in the body just be the witness
52:46
I took once again I have to read right
52:49
this is not a criticism this is X mmm
52:52
this is seeing that these are
52:55
methodologies to bring about change and
52:57
the witnessing shift where things can be
53:01
seen from an impersonal perspective is
53:03
is hugely important but at some point
53:06
that becomes spiritual bypassing once it
53:10
has developed to a certain stage if we
53:13
think that that is the exclusive
53:14
liberation that that is what I am is
53:21
just that witnessing presence it becomes
53:24
a belief that is not actually that
53:26
accurate and that movement becomes a
53:30
bypassing of feeling and so why is this
53:34
feeling important this feeling is
53:35
important because once the
53:38
has happened and we the body the system
53:41
is sufficiently open the load of guilt
53:44
and blame and expectations that has
53:48
built up over a lifetime needs to
53:50
liberate itself from the body system so
53:55
once this framework is in place is
53:58
understanding that life is not personal
54:00
but that it was interpreted as personal
54:02
in the past it wasn’t personal but when
54:06
painful circumstances happened they were
54:09
taken is you hurt me I hate you I messed
54:13
up I hate myself my parents abandoned me
54:17
because I wasn’t good enough and so
54:19
these are all psychological
54:21
interpretations of an impersonal flow of
54:24
life and they become loads of guilt and
54:29
shame and at their core there is the
54:33
belief of personal doership and
54:34
attachment to outcome and that energetic
54:37
load is contained in the body so at some
54:41
point we have to when the energies are
54:47
coming up instead of taking the position
54:49
of being the formless witness that
54:51
doesn’t actually get to feel what is at
54:53
the core of those energies because as
54:55
you said that movement tends to dissolve
54:58
the energies so we don’t feel them
55:01
really it’s true
55:08
can’t it can’t it happen simultaneously
55:11
yes that’s so that’s this this next say
55:17
once the witnessing has become a
55:19
movement that has settled in then there
55:25
is a time when these energies come up
55:27
and we need to in our system have
55:31
something that says it’s not
55:34
unenlightened to feel this whereas for a
55:37
while we’re sort of told it’s
55:39
unenlightened to feel certain things
55:41
because we’re the witness for good
55:43
reason so that that witnessing gets put
55:46
in place and some points we realized we
55:48
need to just surrender into the feeling
55:51
that’s coming up and that means allow
55:55
the feeling of all of the unenlightened
55:59
energy in a sense all of the blame all
56:01
of the hatred all of the shame to come
56:04
up and that can be very hard to our
56:06
conditioning that that’s telling us well
56:09
enlightenment is the end of that so we
56:12
don’t want to sort of acknowledge that
56:14
because we think well if I’m if I’m
56:18
feeling extreme hatred to someone that’s
56:20
the unenlightened but so if we if it
56:24
gets put into a certain perspective and
56:26
say this is the load of guilt and blame
56:28
that has been stored away in the body
56:30
based on all of the interpretation of
56:32
life in the past from this personal
56:35
perspective and when it comes up it’s
56:38
not you believing in personal doership
56:43
it’s not you being unenlightened it’s
56:45
those energies coming out of their
56:47
hiding places and if those energies
56:50
don’t come out we can understand the
56:52
concept of Nandu ship and non attachment
56:56
intellectually yet in the body there’s
57:00
this load of attachment and do a ship
57:03
storm and so we’re going to keep getting
57:04
triggered in life even though
57:07
intellectually we understand we’re not
57:08
the doer and the others not the doer
57:10
that my happiness isn’t to be found and
57:12
outcomes we’re going to find ourselves
57:14
going out there and being triggered and
57:16
if we don’t understand why we’re gonna
57:17
get frustrated we go why is it that I
57:20
I understand and yet I still keep
57:23
getting triggered and it’s because this
57:24
load is still in the body and going into
57:27
the witnessing perspective doesn’t tend
57:29
to deal with that load it tends to show
57:31
us that our true nature is not affected
57:34
buying so they’re three movements that
57:39
if they become proficient so if you
57:42
become proficient at the right time
57:44
meaning when the energy is a certain way
57:47
you realize I just need to surrender
57:49
into this energy and let it rise and the
57:56
best thing is when what you said happens
57:58
is that you allow it to come up and they
58:00
can be crying they can be hitting there
58:03
can be all sorts of visions and at the
58:08
same time there is something witnessing
58:10
all of that so the energies come up with
58:13
their full intensity without the
58:15
intention of them dissolving but more
58:18
with the allowing them to express not
58:21
necessarily to a person and it’s not
58:24
just expressing because we can go into
58:27
expressing through lots of therapy in a
58:29
sense but if we don’t have an
58:32
understanding that there is no doer in
58:34
life there never has been a doer there
58:35
never has been someone separate from
58:39
life that has hurt you of their own
58:42
volition then what happens is we can
58:44
express a whole lot of things but it
58:45
never really gets released and if we
58:48
have this understanding then these
58:50
energies come up and there seem to be
58:52
our relationship to life from the past
58:55
and then they come up they get expressed
58:57
and atoned released
59:04
I have a little question regarding the
59:07
second approach so it was about deported
59:12
beliefs so you notice you can if you get
59:19
to the core we took a notice the
59:20
deported beliefs in subconscious that
59:22
and on the show in the deep rooted
59:27
beliefs yes yeah so what you say is it
59:31
is it more about just seeing seeing and
59:35
discovering this beliefs as they are
59:37
also about actively like in real time
59:42
kicking in the contradictory like the
59:46
Contra beliefs the I’m not good enough
59:48
so I am good enough I’m amazing or or
59:52
maybe in some other times using it not
59:53
not in the time of of the stuffing maybe
59:57
I’m doing today just spontaneously oh
59:59
well no there are the the beliefs the
60:03
new concepts so the new concepts are not
60:05
meant to be new beliefs the new concepts
60:10
are very specific they’re not positive
60:12
thinking now positive thinking for some
60:15
people at certain levels of the
60:18
transformation is what’s going to be
60:20
most effective so if you’re thinking
60:24
negatively well it’s better to replace
60:26
that with a positive thinking the the
60:29
concepts here are not a positive
60:31
thinking there are actually descriptions
60:33
of reality and or didn’t well reality
60:38
that’s not necessarily the descriptions
60:40
of life as it presents and they’re there
60:45
to undermine the other beliefs and fall
60:49
away with the other beliefs
60:52
once they’ve undermined them so we don’t
60:54
want to go around as is in some circles
60:58
saying I’m a goddess or I’m a God that
61:01
that’s valid when someone feels like
61:04
they’re worthless then they get given an
61:06
affirmation to say no actually you are a
61:08
goddess or a god this is different it’s
61:15
not better because if you give this to
61:17
someone when it’s not a
61:18
appropriate it’s not useful but as we
61:23
spoke about yesterday all of the words
61:25
are essentially descriptions and
61:27
concerts so in ten minutes I can
61:30
happiness for the humanists being as
61:32
peace of mind
61:33
concept peace of mind is the absence of
61:35
suffering concept suffering in practical
61:38
terms arises in the form of guilt blame
61:40
pride worry expectation concept blame is
61:44
the MOOC the psychological movement that
61:47
arises when someone delivers pain to you
61:50
and that pain is received and then the
61:52
other is seen as the one who of their
61:56
own free will and volition as a separate
61:59
independent entity delivered that pain
62:01
to you it’s a concept it’s a description
62:04
of the dynamic and then there is a
62:08
concept that says your happiness isn’t
62:11
to be found in the flow of life meaning
62:15
your happiness isn’t to be found when
62:17
everyone does exactly what you want
62:20
because the flow of life is you know
62:23
walking out on the street and your
62:27
happiness isn’t to be found in you
62:29
walking out in the street and no beggars
62:30
approaching you and all the cars waiting
62:32
for you to cross the road and for you to
62:34
find a cut parking spot and that’s not
62:37
what human happiness is dependent on so
62:41
why is that concept which is just a
62:43
description your happiness is not to be
62:46
found in circumstance being pleasure
62:49
pleasure pleasure pleasure
62:50
why is that concept there it’s there
62:53
because our suffering in the form of
62:56
worry and anxiety expectation and
62:59
attachment to outcome exists in the form
63:04
of us imagining how life needs to be
63:08
tomorrow or in this moment so we have a
63:11
picture in our head of how life needs to
63:14
be and life is this moving feast all of
63:21
these components that we’re not in
63:23
control of so how on earth is the
63:28
chessboard of life ever going to
63:32
always look exactly the way we wanted
63:34
it’s really when we look when we think
63:37
about this we think what a ridiculous
63:38
notion for me to have an expectation of
63:41
how this hugely complex life with all of
63:45
these billions and trillions of
63:47
variables how ridiculous for me to have
63:50
a expectation of how it looks so it’s
63:54
like an avalanche coming down a mountain
63:56
and me saying you know a little bit to
63:58
the left a little to the right I’d like
64:00
you to have a bit of a puff up there you
64:02
know it’s a psychological relationship
64:06
to life and when we realize this we see
64:10
life is never going to be how I want
64:13
that life is going to be but when we see
64:17
our resistance to life and we look at it
64:19
we see our resistance to life is based
64:21
on us having an expectation and then
64:25
life not meeting it and that expectation
64:28
is based on the idea that I’d like it to
64:31
be this way because that is what I think
64:33
will deliver my happiness
64:36
so the concept says no your happiness is
64:38
never to be found in the flow of life
64:40
once that suffering arises of
64:43
expectation and we catch it and we have
64:48
realized that it’s about me thinking my
64:51
happiness is in things being the way I
64:53
want them to be then the concept
64:55
automatically arises this is it’s a
64:59
reminder it says my happiness isn’t to
65:02
be found in the flow of life and then
65:04
that where do we drop where do we drop
65:07
once that reminder comes up we drop into
65:10
our heart where we find here I am
65:14
complete even when I can’t find a car
65:18
parking spot even when the computer
65:21
doesn’t do what I wanted to do you know
65:24
I intend to broadcast the talk I don’t
65:30
know that that’s what’s destined to
65:31
happen predetermined to happen so if it
65:35
doesn’t happen if there is an attitude
65:40
that kicks ins is you know your
65:41
happiness has nothing to do with life
65:44
turning out the
65:45
you wanted then we drop out of that
65:49
thinking loop into being here it is
65:54
and then experientially we find that my
65:57
happiness has nothing to do with the
65:59
flow of life and as we experientially
66:03
find that our happiness is nothing to do
66:05
with the flow of life that old pattern
66:08
of expectations starts to atrophy starts
66:12
to dissolve I don’t know even though in
66:17
that sometimes I start answering a
66:19
question and I don’t actually get back
66:20
to the question in a sense you answered
66:24
it what I understand not maybe not
66:25
directly but like the contour thought
66:28
helps the the thought that brings a
66:31
suffering to like a beam or a sin yes
66:35
Monica observable and yet so actually so
66:41
the concepts are essentially information
66:45
for the intellect for the working mind
66:48
that’s what we’re doing we’re equipping
66:50
the working mind to see the dysfunction
66:55
of the thinking mind and we’re as part
67:00
of the concept we’re saying the thinking
67:01
mind creates suffering that is our
67:03
uncomfortableness our uncomfortableness
67:06
is not our true nature our true nature
67:09
is peace and so whenever suffering
67:13
arises if the working mind has been
67:15
equipped sufficient sufficiently it
67:18
registers the suffering it doesn’t try
67:22
to fix it because that’s the job of the
67:24
thinking mind the thinking minds is
67:27
there suffering how do I fix it the
67:29
working mind understands life’s
67:31
predetermined and it might not be
67:34
predetermined for the suffering to end
67:36
for the next three hours so the working
67:39
mind sees the suffering and it might
67:43
actually start to understand the dynamic
67:45
of the suffering also as predetermined
67:50
and in seeing it it is being dissolved
68:08
when one’s witnessing the other is
68:13
investigating contemplation
68:16
investigation along the lines of the
68:21
concepts that are presented here or
68:24
through whatever teaching you happen to
68:26
be listening to or in immersed in and
68:28
the third one is surrendering to the
68:33
uncomfortable feeling that is arising
68:34
and allowing to fill the whole space and
68:40
giving it a platform to play out I did
68:49
mention I did say there were four but I
68:51
didn’t talk about four there’s probably
68:55
15 and a lot of hybrids of each one but
69:02
these are the three that come up at the
69:05
moment that seem relevant
69:08
so today’s satsang I was intending
69:12
whether not that it’s necessarily too
69:17
important whether we do but you know
69:19
there’s a lot of words you’re hearing a
69:20
lot of words the words are very
69:22
important but they’re not the peace are
69:26
they they’re part of what can lead to
69:28
the peace sometimes people listen hear
69:31
words and they say oh this is not what
69:33
it’s about there’s too much words that
69:35
I’ve experienced the pieces not of the
69:38
intellect it’s something beyond the mind
69:43
and if we take that perspective we may
69:47
well miss certain pointers that are very
69:51
useful to bring us to a place outside of
69:54
the intellect so I thought that what we
69:58
can do is talk about a movement into
70:01
being
70:04
that can complement so it’s it’s this
70:08
movement that we were talking about
70:09
dropping into our silent place core of
70:16
our being the self actually the self I
70:20
am as a nigga data refers to it and talk
70:29
about how the concepts tie in with that
70:33
this piece of mind is the absence not
70:36
the presence of certain thinking so
70:42
we’re really talking about silence
70:45
silence of the thinking mind oh yes I
70:56
want to talk about the present moment
70:59
and what we spoke yesterday am I looking
71:05
at a teacher yes from my point of view
71:09
yes I’ve come here to a satsang Roger
71:11
Costello was a spiritual teacher who’s
71:13
enlightened and I’m a seeker and there
71:15
is a teaching happening it is not just
71:18
with the drop with Roger Costello it’s
71:20
been with all the Guru’s that I have
71:22
followed from from the time for the last
71:24
thirty years and there has been an
71:27
evolution of this understanding of this
71:28
teaching that you have to do a certain
71:30
thing from the beginning in my search
71:32
you have to do this and this and this
71:34
and this will happen you notice around
71:35
in meditation do the yama niyama they’re
71:39
good disciplines etc and then the shift
71:42
came after listening the last couple of
71:44
years to Tony parson yourself and
71:46
certain similar teachers that there’s
71:48
nothing to do so as a seeker I am
71:52
confused between this lesson which I
71:54
give a vocabulary lesson oneness
71:56
everything is predetermined you have
71:59
nothing to do nobody walked into this
72:02
room there is no teacher there is no
72:04
student there is no teaching is just
72:05
happening that’s the lesson one and the
72:07
lesson two immediately comes up
72:10
predetermination is there but then as
72:14
you said Ramesh said there is a
72:16
freewill and then the lesson to is do
72:19
something so as a seeker the last 30
72:22
years this has led me to that clarity
72:25
that there is everything happening but
72:27
when teachers like Roger also says you
72:30
know like you have to be in the company
72:32
of sages
72:33
that’s an advice given or you know drop
72:36
into your being that becomes an you know
72:38
an exercise so my thing is is there
72:41
something missing in this teaching right
72:43
from the beginning or how we missing
72:45
something for example I have been taught
72:46
mathematics two plus three is five I get
72:49
my hundred percent in science they say
72:51
hydrogen plus chloride is HCl I get
72:53
hundred percent in chemistry then they
72:55
said you know this is that a naked
72:57
hundred presidency why is it that I’m
72:58
failing in spirituality repeatedly every
73:00
day of my life
73:01
every second is it the problem with the
73:04
student or the teacher or the teaching
73:06
definitely this to you because I’m
73:11
trying to turn it around now give me the
73:13
freedom to do that look look at me as
73:15
say a four-year-old Elango was in his
73:17
baby class and you are the teacher you
73:19
come there and you say you long ago
73:21
today there is nothing to do everything
73:22
is happening where it says that’s lesson
73:23
one between 10:00 to 11:00 is everything
73:26
is happening but then 11:00 to tell the
73:27
second lesson is do this okay to follow
73:31
my concepts yes exactly so I’ll tell you
73:32
why the problem is is because we have to
73:36
understand that there is a psychological
73:38
level of life so life is all of all of
73:43
this is life including Elango and your
73:45
thinking and all that the flow of life
73:48
rent to the flow of life the word the
73:52
flow of life refers to something very
73:54
specific the flow of life refers to
73:56
circumstance right so the flow of life
74:00
is part of life overall life overall
74:04
includes the flow of life and your
74:08
attitude to the flow of life what the
74:11
teaching is that there is no me no hold
74:14
on let’s let’s let’s address this so the
74:17
problem is when we hear that there is
74:20
nothing to do right and we look at that
74:24
as a description of the flow of life and
74:28
then when in the flow of life things
74:30
happen we say hey hang on this there’s
74:33
nothing to do because I’m doing
74:34
something I’m doing my mathematics and
74:36
with the washing-up and all of that that
74:39
doesn’t fit in with there’s nothing to
74:41
do because on the one hand life is
74:44
happening and on the other hand I’m told
74:47
that there’s nothing to do and you’re
74:49
not correcting me when I’m doing my when
74:51
I’m doing washing the dishes you’re not
74:53
telling me stop washing the dishes
74:54
there’s nothing to do right so where it
74:57
comes in is we have to see that there’s
74:59
nothing to do is talking to the cycle on
75:02
the to the psychology the psychology
75:05
that claims ownership over what is
75:08
happening and what needs to happen so
75:12
the there is nothing to do is talking to
75:15
the psychological entity so it says
75:19
there’s nothing for you as a doer to do
75:23
allow life to happen it will happen
75:26
according to your genes and
75:28
up-to-date-conditioning you don’t need
75:31
to decide ahead of time what to do and I
75:34
don’t need to tell you ahead of time
75:36
what to do on the psychological level
75:38
and so then you sit here and you hear me
75:46
telling you something to do but I don’t
75:49
tell you about something to do but then
75:54
why are we here in any teaching yeah so
75:57
you so let’s look at it would um if if I
76:00
were to say if we drop from the head to
76:04
the heart that’s or anything it indeed
76:08
it’s it’s a description can I just wait
76:11
wait we have to stick to this because
76:13
otherwise we have a good a good question
76:16
that doesn’t get answered it sounds like
76:21
a prescription if you drop if you
76:26
dropped from the head to the heart then
76:29
there is peace with what’s happening but
76:35
I’m not telling you as a doer to do
76:39
dropping from the head to the heart
76:43
but is it not true if you are one day
76:47
walking along and you find that a
76:50
dropping from head to heart happens and
76:55
a smile comes to your face because the
76:59
suffering that might have been there
77:01
when you were in your thinking mind just
77:04
ceases when you drop into this presence
77:07
then you see ah you know if you dropped
77:10
from head to heart a peace of mind sets
77:15
in and you see that wasn’t a
77:17
prescription that was a description of
77:21
what might happen dropping from the head
77:24
to the heart might happen and a
77:27
prescription of what happens when
77:29
dropping from the head to the heart
77:31
happens this peace of mind and in that
77:34
moment you realize I didn’t do dropping
77:36
from head to heart it happened but why
77:39
did it happen and you might find it
77:42
happen because you’d listen to this
77:44
satsang which was going to be about
77:45
dropping from head to heart and in that
77:49
satsang there was new conditioning that
77:51
was thrown out and became part of the
77:53
biological entity that was walking along
77:56
the street and based on its existing
78:00
genes and up-to-date-conditioning a
78:02
dropping from head to heart just
78:03
happened so is it that there is no
78:07
prescription is it that through words
78:10
there is a transfer of something to me
78:12
which happens in the future I mean
78:14
that’s how I have to look at it as yes
78:15
the words the words are new conditioning
78:17
and they go alike as an anti virus
78:19
inside me and works out at some point in
78:22
time maybe immediately or maybe a week
78:23
from now sort of maybe or maybe not
78:26
maybe not because it’s up to this week
78:29
we I can’t control how you receive the
78:31
words and frankly no could you because
78:34
the question I was about to ask you
78:36
about three minutes ago was if I go to a
78:39
music teacher to learn violin he teaches
78:41
me you know how to do that I go to a
78:44
martial artists teacher and he teaches
78:45
me how to do that they go to a painter
78:48
he teaches me and there are instructions
78:49
to do like so on and so forth to garden
78:52
into everything how does a spiritual
78:54
teacher and especially
78:55
different that he doesn’t tell me
78:57
anything but still he is a teacher and I
78:59
am a student okay because one teacher is
79:01
teaching you about the flow of life
79:03
right so they’re giving you conditioning
79:06
and the flow of life if you learning
79:13
he’ll say don’t put and don’t hold the
79:17
thing so so tightly and that just
79:21
becomes new conditioning so you might
79:23
not be able to not hold it tightly he’s
79:26
told you not to hold it tightly but
79:29
whether you actually understand what
79:30
he’s talking about on a deeper you might
79:33
keep going back to holding it tightly it
79:34
keeps telling you don’t hold it so
79:35
tightly you keep going back to holding
79:38
it tightly so his tote is giving you an
79:41
instruction instruction but you may or
79:44
may not follow it or it may or may not
79:49
manifest through you but what I’m saying
79:52
is all teachers instructed there is a
79:54
doer ship how does the spiritual teacher
79:56
especially Roger differ in that saying
79:58
there is no do ership and his aim
80:00
ultimately and the beauty of the of your
80:02
teaching is dissolution of doership but
80:05
then how has a teacher because you were
80:07
so non doing by you know there is a
80:11
paradox you give us the teaching of
80:13
dissolution of doership
80:15
and then you say that it’s not doership
80:18
how do how do well the first part of the
80:20
teaching of predetermination there is no
80:21
field is excellent like that sinks in
80:24
but when I come to the satsang it means
80:26
it has really not sunk and if as if it
80:27
is really sunk in I wouldn’t be coming
80:29
here true so I want to find out what is
80:33
the problem with me or the teaching yeah
80:36
so in spiritual teaching we’re talking
80:39
to this about psychology in a sense the
80:42
dissolving of a identity of do ership
80:46
now Einstein had a quote he says you
80:52
can’t fix a problem with the same mind
80:55
that created the problem and so the
81:00
problem is personal do ership if someone
81:04
tries to fix personal doership using the
81:07
attitude of personal
81:09
you’re not going to fix that problem but
81:13
that problem is non-existent personal
81:15
doership it’s your non-existent shal
81:17
problem which is a virtual reality it
81:19
the the existence of personal do ship
81:23
does exist it’s a belief the thing is
81:28
that the belief is not accurate so it’s
81:30
not a correct belief that’s why it can
81:33
dissolve this is the good news is that
81:35
our suffering arises because an identity
81:38
has been put in place that is
81:40
essentially a false identity of who we
81:43
are and what life is so it’s the
81:46
dissolution of that false belief system
81:49
that delivers freedom so the good news
81:52
is that it’s a false belief that’s why
81:55
it can dissolve if the thinking mind
82:01
here’s the teaching and tries to fix
82:07
life it’s reinforcing the belief of
82:13
personal doership so the teaching is
82:16
talking to the working mind can you
82:19
explain to me like what’s the basic
82:21
difference as a person into the thinking
82:23
the thinking when it thinks and the
82:24
working mind is booking a train ticket
82:27
and the the working mind thinks but it
82:31
doesn’t think on the basis of personal
82:33
do ship and attachment to outcome the
82:36
thinking mind is what produces all of
82:40
the thinking of guilt blame pride worry
82:42
and expectation now why is the thinking
82:46
mind in place it’s in place because of
82:48
the up-to-date-conditioning that we have
82:50
received that has put in place the
82:53
belief I am the doer of everything that
82:56
happens in life so the thinking mind is
83:00
there because of your genes and
83:01
up-to-date-conditioning the working mind
83:04
which can be there simultaneously
83:05
because even when someone is suffering
83:07
there’s still the functional mind there
83:09
that also functions on its on our genes
83:12
and up-to-date-conditioning it’s a
83:14
result of our up-to-date-conditioning so
83:17
how does the thinking mind
83:20
get dissolved it gets dissolved by life
83:24
so let’s say I’m just an instrument that
83:27
life is using to deliver new
83:29
conditioning to the working mind the
83:32
working mind is being told there is no
83:35
doer and when Elango functions the
83:41
functioning is not because he is a
83:44
volitional doer but rather because life
83:47
is designed him to function that way
83:50
that is a description being given to the
83:52
working mind when the thinking mind
83:57
kicks in the thinking mind is saying I
84:00
am the doer you are the doer I hate you
84:04
I hate myself I want life to be
84:08
different to the way it is that’s also
84:10
part of the thinking mind the working
84:13
mind has been equipped with a
84:15
description that says there is no doer
84:17
and it’s been equipped with a
84:18
description of what an explanation of
84:21
why there is no door and it’s been
84:24
equipped with an explanation that says
84:26
your happiness isn’t to be found an
84:27
outcome it’s been equipped with an
84:30
explanation that says the thinking mind
84:32
which is functioning the way life is
84:34
designed to function is full of error
84:40
and not error that Elango has caused but
84:43
error that life has put in place and so
84:47
now that the working mind has been
84:49
equipped right the working mind can even
84:52
see the functioning of the thinking mind
84:56
for the working mind to see the function
85:00
does that require a doer what does it
85:05
just require hardware that has been
85:11
given a software that understands things
85:20
so for the working mind to see the
85:22
thinking mind to recognize it does it
85:26
require a doer no it doesn’t it just
85:30
requires the working mind to be equipped
85:33
correctly so in order for you to
85:35
identify an Apple does it require a
85:39
separate independent entity with
85:41
volition to identify the Apple no it
85:47
just requires the intellect to be
85:49
equipped with an understanding but that
85:52
is an apple and then when the intellect
85:58
is equipped with the understanding that
86:01
apples are good to eat when you’re
86:04
hungry or they taste a certain way so
86:06
that becomes part of the intellect and
86:09
then your mother says Elango eat the
86:11
apple it sounds like a prescription
86:14
right but it’s actually the circumstance
86:19
that we find ourself in and based on the
86:23
genes and up-to-date-conditioning eating
86:27
the Apple will happen or it won’t happen
86:29
so that’s why I understand what you’re
86:34
saying the concepts from certain angles
86:37
can sound like prescriptions to a doer i
86:42
reiterates they’re not prescriptions to
86:44
a door there are descriptions that are
86:47
being given to a working mind so the new
86:51
conditioning to a working mind that will
86:54
automatically see the thinking of the
86:57
thinking mind so you I promise you you
87:01
can go out and not worry about doing any
87:05
investigating and the investigating will
87:09
happen on its own
87:11
when blame arises when worry arises the
87:16
working mind will see it don’t make any
87:21
effort don’t think that you have you’re
87:25
off duty right as a doer you are
87:29
completely off duty
87:32
go out in life and if the working mind
87:36
has been sufficiently programmed when
87:39
suffering presents it has to be seen so
87:44
I don’t have any homework to do
87:45
I’m really not which means you’re just
87:48
pumping in and happened to me isn’t it I
87:51
mean if you look at the analysis of
87:53
what’s happening that’s exactly right
87:55
and that that that missile is straight
87:59
at my working mind to reprogram it I
88:03
mean we have to talk in terms of
88:04
intelligence we’re commissioning the
88:05
working mind to target the thinking mind
88:07
correct but that thing came from you
88:09
into my working mind I will not allow my
88:12
working mind to open up and you you
88:14
change the programming as a engineer
88:16
into my working mind but whenever I get
88:18
up thinking my problem it’s an automatic
88:20
like a star war shield it takes care of
88:22
the thinking mind
88:23
let’s hope yes that’s that’s what what
88:29
this I know from my experience being
88:33
exposed to spiritual teachings that
88:35
what’s what happened the feedback that
88:37
has been coming and that I know Ramesh
88:40
use together and many other teachings
88:42
and I get it myself is that wow this it
88:44
just starts happening I don’t have to do
88:47
it that the identification of the
88:50
suffering the cutting off of the
88:52
suffering it all becomes automatic so in
88:55
Roger Castro’s teachings there is no one
88:57
two three sit down meditation in the
88:59
morning look at a rose flower nothing is
89:01
there no but I just come to the satsang
89:03
or the company of sages that’s what you
89:05
well I can tell you that in my case
89:08
going for walks each morning for two or
89:11
three hours was a beautiful part of the
89:14
process of contemplation but I’m not
89:17
going to tell someone you should go for
89:18
walks because I don’t know that that is
89:21
going to be part of how it works for you
89:24
so I would say if you enjoy going for a
89:28
walk go for a walk and if you find that
89:31
contemplating happens while you’re
89:33
walking that’s even greater and so do it
89:37
if you feel like it but definitely I
89:39
don’t say you have to do two hours of
89:41
walking or you’re never going to become
89:42
enlightened which is the same you know
89:45
walking if someone was of course not but
89:47
what about meditation there’s so many
89:49
people that did two hours of meditation
89:50
every morning because that’s the only
89:52
way to become enlightened if that’s the
89:55
what’s ingrained in them there’s
89:57
probably the thinking mind taking a
90:01
practice that it is practicing and only
90:06
after years of meditation does it become
90:11
clear that there is in in true
90:14
meditation there is no meditator there
90:17
is no one doing meditation and so for as
90:21
long as someone is they’re trying to do
90:24
meditation they are the disturbance
90:26
right so the Roger there is no
90:28
meditation there is no homework just
90:30
walk out and enjoy the life you’re off
90:31
duty for life that’s it I mean I’m
90:33
trying to be very very clear about and
90:35
furthermore we someone used to say so
90:37
actually what’s the if it’s going to
90:41
happen on its own I might as well go to
90:43
the beach but it’s not happening at the
90:45
beach that’s where you’re coming here
90:46
yeah but if you understand that it could
90:48
happen on its own without a doer and
90:50
then that means that satsang has done it
90:52
now go to the beach and the
90:56
understanding that has been ingrained
90:58
already to be able to get you to the
91:00
conclusion that actually even coming to
91:06
satsang unless I feel like it it
91:11
shouldn’t be a prescription but even the
91:13
feeling is yesterday isn’t sure yes so
91:18
this is not saying don’t come to satsang
91:20
it’s saying allow yourself to move in
91:23
life based on what you feel like doing
91:26
or what you think to do to the extent
91:29
that that happens with less shoulds
91:31
insurance because the shenzhen should
91:34
answer effectively part of the thinking
91:36
mind that says if I do this which I
91:39
should do then I’ll get this outcome
91:41
which is where my happiness is to be
91:42
found so drop all the shoulds insurance
91:44
and just allow life to move you without
91:49
you saying no that’s not a good movement
91:55
so you come to satsang if you feel like
91:58
it you meditate if you feel like it
92:00
there could be impressive things could
92:03
happen when you’re meditating if you
92:05
feel like it if you go into the
92:08
meditation without a strict regime of
92:11
what you think the meditation should
92:12
look like how long you should be in
92:13
meditation for what successful
92:16
meditation is but in Rogers teaching
92:20
here is where I get the antivirus this
92:22
is the like the amazon.com the only
92:24
outlet available no the branches I’m
92:26
seriously asking this like when I come
92:29
to Rajas satsang to get Rogers input
92:32
into me to understand it perfectly I
92:34
need to be here to listen
92:36
only then my working man can get
92:38
reprogrammed just the message Ramesh
92:42
used to say you need to come three times
92:45
for a satsang yeah first time to hear
92:50
the concepts then you go home and you
92:54
think about and you say I’m not quite
92:55
sure about this so you come back a
92:57
second time and we deal with the little
92:59
bits that you’re unsure of then you go
93:02
home again and you reassimilate it if
93:04
there’s any problems come back a third
93:07
time we’ll deal with those and that’s it
93:10
now in a way it’s a it’s not not really
93:13
a joke so ideal but what it’s saying is
93:16
that the framework is not actually that
93:18
complex once the framework is understood
93:24
then it’s about the framework becoming
93:28
applied in daily living which is not
93:30
something that doer does but something
93:32
that happens on its own I know from
93:37
experience that coming to satsang is
93:39
amazing and if it was limited to three
93:43
times we probably don’t absorb
93:46
everything that needs to be absorbed but
93:48
the point is it’s not something that we
93:51
need to become attached to you know
93:54
you’re not really getting anything other
93:56
than new conditioning that is
93:58
specifically designed to attack the
94:01
conditioning that disturbs our natural
94:03
state of being was in the beginning of
94:07
the talk you were saying
94:09
early before meeting Remy aware of the
94:11
thing that there was only
94:13
predetermination and up to meeting him
94:16
free will came in and he said free will
94:17
is also part of but they totally
94:19
opposite isn’t the wrong so let’s change
94:22
it I’ve added in to avoid months of
94:24
confusion that it’s the feeling of free
94:28
will so the feeling of free will doesn’t
94:34
necessarily mean that there is ultimate
94:36
free will that’s what I wish also said
94:38
that’s what he meant
94:40
so the ultimately it’s determinism this
94:43
is a deterministic universe but you
94:45
can’t ignore the two sides of the coin
94:48
because if you if you just stick with
94:50
ultimate you don’t get to appreciate the
94:54
relative or the the actual because a lot
94:58
of ultimate is just theory it’s like
95:00
quantum physics you could say ultimately
95:03
the table is nothing hmm but you can’t
95:08
live as if the table is nothing right in
95:11
practice you live as if the table is
95:13
something and in theory the knife and
95:16
fork is nothing but you use a knife and
95:18
fork in practice as if they are
95:20
something and so what we sometimes think
95:24
is oh I didn’t understand the ultimate
95:27
and I was caught in the illusion so then
95:30
we understand the ultimate and we ignore
95:32
what is actually more relevant than the
95:35
ultimate now this isn’t to say that we
95:38
have to pick one or the other the whole
95:40
thing is to see both and hold them
95:43
together so if someone were to say
95:47
quantum mechanics is much more real than
95:53
Newtonian mechanics they don’t
95:57
understand physics because the fact is
96:00
that the two are not separable the two
96:03
are codependent you actually there
96:07
aren’t two the two are just conceptual
96:11
distinctions of the one seen from a
96:14
particular perspective if you look at
96:17
life from a particular perspective you
96:19
see the quantum level if you look at it
96:21
from another perspective you
96:23
the Newtonian actual actuality but they
96:28
don’t ever exist independent of each
96:30
other they are both there so when we
96:33
look at a tank a water tank a
96:37
cylindrical water tank if you do a
96:39
sideview drawing it’s a rectangle if you
96:42
do a tropic view drawing it’s a circle
96:45
so that is looking at the tank from two
96:48
different angles and so if someone says
96:50
from where I see it it’s a rectangle and
96:52
the other one says from where I see it
96:54
it’s a circle now they sound like
96:56
there’s one’s right and one’s wrong
96:59
because well they’re both wrong you say
97:01
they can’t both be right because one
97:02
sees a rectangle the other sees a circle
97:06
neither is knowing it as the water tank
97:09
or maybe they do but so what we need to
97:14
understand is that really what there is
97:18
is the water tank and seen from
97:20
different perspectives it’s one one
97:23
thing and from another perspective
97:24
another but there’s always the water
97:26
tank well what we want is to be able to
97:29
understand that from both perspectives
97:31
and then see the water tank and not get
97:34
lost in just what we see from a
97:36
particular perspective so there is
97:41
freewill in practice the feeling of
97:46
freewill it’s a gift if we prayed for my
97:50
feeling of freewill to be taken away God
97:53
please I understand that my freewill is
97:55
the problem take it away from me we
97:59
would be disappointed in the outcome if
98:02
God actually delivered because we would
98:05
then the feeling that I am free to take
98:09
a sip of water wouldn’t be there anymore
98:12
I would feel like I am chained up and
98:15
being pushed around but that is only
98:19
when the eye remains that is lost
98:22
actions will happen without any sense of
98:24
you know I mean I’m being chained I am
98:26
being pushed around that was just a
98:28
thoughtlessness and actions will happen
98:30
so when that happens let’s take Ramana
98:33
as the example
98:35
Ramin are as and so I can’t speak for
98:39
round but a a certain point you
98:42
understand why we’re talking about the
98:44
same thing when you know you’re talking
98:45
about the same thing then you can say
98:49
well the likelihood is Raman I was
98:51
walking through the ashram feeling like
98:53
he was free to walk into the kitchen if
98:55
he wanted to but understanding that he
98:58
was being walked so there is this
99:02
paradox I’m not the doer I’m being lived
99:05
and yet it feels like I am free and
99:12
that’s a great combination that’s a
99:15
that’s the best combination I feel like
99:17
I’m free to walk to the left to the
99:20
right and when something happens my
99:24
attitude is not my doing not you’re
99:26
doing this to both worlds in another
99:30
step about that I mean as it said in the
99:32
bhagavad-gita is that there is just
99:34
action pure action and there is no
99:36
thought about you know going to the left
99:38
or going to the right you just go to the
99:39
left or you just go to the right and
99:40
then you take the bow and you should
99:41
without thinking I mean that’s a perfect
99:43
warrior well not you know hang on if I’m
99:47
not mistaken because we can misinterpret
99:48
the subtleties of things Krishna said to
99:52
Arjuna when Arjuna said I cannot fight
99:56
my gurus and preceptors yeah my actually
100:02
I think he said yes my my friends and
100:05
relatives yes but my gurus no because
100:07
they were all on the other side Lord
100:10
Krishna said to him
100:11
Arjuna you are a warrior you have been
100:14
designed to fight right you have to
100:18
fight then is it as time I have already
100:24
killed them so you are an instrument
100:28
that as time the story of time the
100:33
predetermined story an instrument
100:36
through which I am functioning so you
100:40
have been designed as a warrior you will
100:42
fight so in a
100:47
of the wisdom teaching it says you have
100:51
to act but you can’t claim ownership
100:55
over the erection yes
100:59
so in this teaching you are free in each
101:02
moment to do exactly what you think or
101:04
feel to do understanding that on a
101:06
deeper level what you think or feel to
101:07
do is what is predetermined little done
101:10
deal
101:11
yeah it’s it will go to Ramesh the story
101:15
the film has been written acted produced
101:19
and it’s in the can so there’s no free
101:23
will from a layman’s point of view
101:24
nothing you’re a robot in theory in
101:27
practice in each moment do exactly what
101:30
you think will feel to do that is the
101:32
unfolding of the predetermined film in
101:34
the can the outcome not in your control
101:39
even the doing is not in your control
101:41
there was so now exactly so here in each
101:44
moment do exactly what you think or feel
101:46
to do in theory what do you think or
101:50
feel to do as a result of your genes and
101:52
up-to-date-conditioning that’s not in
101:53
your control
101:54
you didn’t determine your genes and you
101:57
didn’t determine how life conditions you
101:58
moment after moment and the outcome not
102:01
in your control so then we say so your
102:04
freewill is both in theory and in
102:08
practice worthless is not in your
102:10
control nothing but we don’t want
102:12
because we say it’s worthless in theory
102:15
and in practice we don’t want to say
102:16
well it’s irrelevant because in the
102:18
moment we can’t deny there is a feeling
102:20
of free will which I’m very grateful for
102:22
but if that’s teaching really sinks in
102:25
even that feeling goes away no
102:27
thankfully not what goes away is the
102:30
attitudinal relationship to what happens
102:32
where I claim ownership over the outcome
102:35
and I claim responsibility for the
102:38
action now I have to still have to
102:40
accept responsibility from society they
102:43
are going to see the outcome and Society
102:46
will reward me or punish me so turning
102:48
up at the judge did the court house
102:50
after having stolen something and saying
102:53
I’m not the doer you know how could you
102:56
punish me I I was destined to steal the
103:00
judge might have died on the
103:01
stand on but it’s your destiny now to
103:04
spend time in prison yeah I’m not the
103:08
doer of the sentencing it’s happening
103:11
really the judge might understand this
103:14
but he’ll say but on a on a flow of life
103:16
level there is a consequence so society
103:18
will still reward you or punish you
103:22
internally if you understand that this
103:25
notion I am NOT the doer
103:27
when something like that happens the
103:30
guilt might not arrive won’t arise if we
103:33
really deeply understand it and it will
103:36
be yes I was really hungry and I stole
103:38
or I really wanted this thing I thought
103:42
it was a good idea to steal it I did it
103:44
according to my genes and
103:46
up-to-date-conditioning it didn’t turn
103:48
out to be a good result I have to accept
103:50
that and then the suffering doesn’t
103:53
arise this definitely isn’t an excuse
103:56
for bad behavior because it’s pointless
103:59
if someone goes around with just the
104:00
belief I’m not the doer so I’m going to
104:03
be irresponsible and I very soon they’ll
104:05
realize that they get hit hit a lot by
104:07
society um even if they pretending or
104:11
thinking they’re not the doer and it
104:13
doesn’t deliver peace of mind so just
104:16
believing it or using as an excuse not
104:18
good enough if it goes deep into the
104:21
heart and life is seen as a happening
104:24
all the time you walk out and you see
104:26
all this movement you see people talking
104:29
and you see two biological instruments
104:31
talking and you realize that the
104:35
thinking that arises the emotions that
104:37
arise the speaking it’s all happening
104:40
not just intellectually but you’re
104:43
really seeing everything as a happening
104:46
that is correct me if I’m wrong used to
104:49
say there is just understanding there is
104:51
no understand that could you just expand
104:53
on that it’s a bit confusing
104:55
I understand but then there is no inside
104:57
me understanding so he’s saying there is
104:59
a there’s a working mind that has been
105:02
programmed but there is no independent
105:06
doer that does understanding there is
105:10
just understanding happening where we’re
105:12
like which part of me is understanding
105:14
without the door the truth that my mind
105:17
no yet the intellect receives the
105:20
concepts it understands what the
105:22
concepts is saying it makes intellectual
105:25
sense but that doesn’t require a doer
105:28
that just requires the intellect and the
105:31
intellect is machinery the brain is
105:33
machinery it’s like a CPU yes
105:35
programmed so for there to be
105:37
understanding doesn’t require and
105:38
understand the understand there is the
105:42
psychological image we have of what must
105:45
be there in order for talking to heaven
105:48
so we see talking happening and there’s
105:51
talking there must be a talker and the
105:53
talker that we imagine is a
105:54
psychological entity we don’t see the
105:57
talker as just a biological instrument
105:59
designed to do talking so can I just
106:01
understand it as this is a pilot like us
106:03
like this computer which is silica-based
106:05
this is a biological computer probably
106:07
carbon-based which has been programmed
106:09
by this universe and this is just a
106:12
machine and understands are not
106:14
understanding is according to its
106:15
language maybe it’s cobalt or what a
106:17
Fortran or whatever it is you understand
106:19
then that’s it there is nothing inside
106:21
here doing this it’s it’s being done
106:23
unto it’s being lived the the the
106:26
software has been programmed to see life
106:29
in a certain way a certain way whether
106:32
it’s accurate or inaccurate doesn’t
106:33
matter it’s not mine it well it’s not
106:36
mine
106:37
the spammer know was not mine no so you
106:39
didn’t do the the the understanding
106:42
essentially you could say is imposed on
106:43
you but everything my body is not mine
106:47
it’s actually a product of my father and
106:50
mother then it goes up to the
106:51
chimpanzees up to the Big Bang and
106:53
Beyond multi-and multiverses etc etc so
106:55
this is a this is what is happening here
106:58
yes so that’s good enough if you want to
107:00
say it’s not you it’s a instrument it’s
107:03
a biological instrument indeed so
107:06
there’s no free will it’s automatic
107:08
universe destiny period yes there is no
107:11
second opinion or second line on this
107:14
well there is we’ve been spending we’ve
107:17
been talking about it through the whole
107:19
satsang but that is secondary in a sense
107:21
to deeply understanding there is no doer
107:25
that is a refinement in a sense
107:28
where we say but actually you know I am
107:32
this entity and the intellect but I’m
107:35
not the doer right I am Roger
107:39
but Roger is not a separate independent
107:41
entity as he said yesterday I am that as
107:45
this yes as this person I am the big is
107:49
this more like understanding it’s only
107:50
the big guy playing this yes
107:54
drama yeah so whenever thinking arises
107:57
that is based on a different attitude to
108:00
life we can see it as that’s the
108:03
misunderstanding now that doesn’t mean
108:07
that we have to insist that the
108:08
misunderstanding stops if we insist the
108:11
misunderstanding stops then that is the
108:14
the alternate view of life kicking in
108:19
again saying they shouldn’t be
108:20
misunderstood who says they shouldn’t be
108:22
misunderstanding if there’s
108:24
misunderstanding God wants there to be
108:25
misunderstanding the thinking mind can
108:30
recognize misunderstandings
108:31
misunderstanding and say it shouldn’t be
108:34
there the working mind will recognize
108:36
misunderstandings misunderstanding and
108:37
say it it seems like it’s here so it
108:40
must need to be here at a practical
108:43
day-to-day level when this is taken on a
108:44
very positive side and I am an equal
108:46
killer on a certain day it’s very
108:48
beautiful but on a negative day when
108:51
things are down I’m hit this is
108:53
seriously depressing and suicidal in the
108:56
sense it takes you to a negative oh my
108:58
god I can’t do anything whether that
108:59
human thing kicks in again I’m coming to
109:02
adership level that’s when the thinking
109:04
mind has – what should the so-called
109:06
robot do at that time
109:09
see it’s suffering yeah it’s suffering
109:12
here and just understand that the
109:14
concern is construed correct and this
109:18
suffering is not mine and whatever I do
109:21
or do not do will not influence the
109:23
outcome in time like Krishna said to
109:25
Arjuna what’s going to happen in the end
109:27
of the battlefield is already programmed
109:28
so me getting anxious that anything is a
109:31
waste of time that’s what I should I’m
109:34
really I’m not telling you what to do
109:36
what you should do
109:38
if it’s seen as misunderstanding and if
109:42
it’s understood that misunderstanding is
109:44
arising based on my genes and
109:45
up-to-date-conditioning part of destiny
109:49
then there’s a relaxation at the
109:54
misunderstanding can remain but this
109:57
isn’t what I just said is not a
109:58
prescription for you to do because if
110:00
you take it as a prescription and the
110:03
suffering arises and then the thought
110:06
arises actually it’s just destiny for it
110:08
to be here and nothing happens and the
110:11
suffering remains right if you take it
110:14
as a prescription to get rid of the
110:16
suffering then you’re going to get
110:18
frustrated because you’re saying but but
110:19
this isn’t working because the suffering
110:20
is still there I’m also saying it could
110:22
be destined for the suffering to remain
110:25
so not a not a prescription to try and
110:31
achieve something but rather a
110:32
description to see what is description
110:37
happens automatically the deprogramming
110:40
is automatically started yes and
110:43
probably this is my second satsang I
110:45
need one more well you’re you’re very
110:51
welcome
110:52
we happen to be out of time today so
110:59
tomorrow I hope we can focus on dropping
111:08
into being and talking about how the
111:12
concepts can arise cut off suffering
111:17
when it’s seen and where do we drop we
111:22
drop back into a remembrance of who we
111:25
really are a remembrance of our essence
111:29
and to the extent that we talked about
111:33
that happening not as a prescription but
111:37
as a description of how the movement can
111:40
start happening how the working mind can
111:45
catch
111:46
and see the thinking mind how an
111:49
appropriate concept such as my happiness
111:53
isn’t to be found in the flow of life
111:54
might arise and how simultaneously we
111:58
might find a dropping into the heart
112:00
happening where for a moment the
112:05
suffering stops and we remember this is
112:09
my nature and it was just covered up by
112:11
suffering and very quickly we might find
112:14
ourselves back into suffering again
112:16
that’s just the way that the momentum
112:19
goes for a while and it might be half an
112:23
hour before we even realize we’re back
112:25
in suffering we might have been in that
112:27
space of peace of mind for half a second
112:30
where we remembered and then straight
112:32
back in towards is very important for me
112:34
to be thinking about what happened three
112:35
years ago it happens automatically and
112:39
in half an hour later we might realize
112:41
I’m blaming someone for what happened
112:44
three and it’s I’m not to do the other
112:46
isn’t doer and that might bring us back
112:49
into being maybe for a second and as
112:55
that starts being something that the
112:57
body does be intellect the working mind
113:01
sees the thinking mind a reminder
113:04
whichever reminder is an appropriate
113:06
might arise and might direct us back
113:09
into being so as this happens more and
113:15
more we find that the amount of time we
113:18
get to rest in between going back into
113:21
suffering gets longer and at some point
113:24
we might even find that this becomes our
113:27
home that it’s not about dropping back
113:30
into being it’s about realizing that
113:34
this is always our home and that it was
113:38
the thinking mind programmed and
113:40
designed a certain way that kept pulling
113:42
us out and once that has been
113:45
sufficiently dissolved aided by this
113:49
dropping into the heart that’s part of
113:52
what shows us we’re not dependent on
113:55
outcomes it shows us experientially that
113:57
what I am at my core is not touched
114:00
by circumstance to the extent that we
114:03
drop in there more and more to the
114:05
extent that they thinking mind dissolves
114:08
find that this is where I can live life
114:11
from and then truly we feel like we’re
114:13
being lived in each moment and the
114:17
suffering doesn’t arise thank you

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