01-12-2019 Roger Castillo – So how do I get rid of the belief in personal doership? ~ Live Stream from India

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Transcript

00:54
so welcome everyone the talks about
01:00
something really really really specific
01:04
everything that is spoken about is
01:07
spoken about because it’s relevant to
01:08
this one specific topic and that topic
01:12
is happiness for the human being in this
01:17
life and that happiness for the human
01:22
being turns out to be something specific
01:26
not happiness through circumstance not
01:31
happiness through outcomes which are
01:33
part and parcel of circumstance
01:35
happiness for the human being according
01:38
to this teaching based on my own
01:40
experience the experience of Ramesh my
01:43
teacher and when you listen to the
01:45
teachings of many other teachers and you
01:51
read in between the lines you’ll see
01:53
actually at the end it’s about one thing
01:55
it’s not about a state it’s not about
01:59
shift in experience those are all part
02:02
and parcel of the process but at the end
02:05
of the day it’s about peace of mind in
02:07
daily living that’s happiness for the
02:12
human being when a human being has
02:15
changed in such a way that there is
02:19
continuous unbroken peace of mind
02:22
regardless of the circumstance we find
02:24
ourselves facing that human being knows
02:27
they’re happy why is that because human
02:33
unhappiness is something very specific
02:36
human unhappiness is what’s being
02:39
referred to as suffering and suffering
02:43
is always attitudinal to circumstance
02:47
suffering is not pain in circumstance
02:53
suffering is our attitude to the
02:55
circumstance
02:59
so that’s what human unhappiness is the
03:03
existence in our experience of suffering
03:06
which is an uncomfortableness with
03:08
oneself and uncomfortableness with the
03:09
other in daily life and happiness is
03:14
just the absence of unhappiness
03:20
happiness is the end of suffering and
03:24
the end of suffering can be referred to
03:26
as peace of mind a quiet mind I’m not
03:36
talking about the end of thinking per se
03:40
because there’s a whole range of
03:42
thinking that has nothing to do with
03:44
suffering if we think that at some point
03:48
this process is going to transform us in
03:51
such a way that the thinking stops if we
03:54
wished that if we prayed to God God
03:57
please I don’t want to think anymore if
04:02
that wish was granted we we wouldn’t be
04:06
very pleased with what we wished for
04:08
because a large part of thinking is very
04:11
necessary in order for daily life to
04:14
happen so it’s a specific type of
04:17
thinking that comes to an end it’s a
04:20
specific type of thinking which is the
04:22
human unhappiness what we can call the
04:25
thinking mind as opposed to the working
04:27
mind the working mind functional what do
04:30
I need to get at the supermarket that
04:33
has to carry on in order for for us to
04:36
function in life so the the satsang is
04:42
about happiness in daily living and it
04:49
puts forward concepts which are just
04:52
pointers things that the working mind
04:55
can receive and contemplate this
05:00
contemplation is really important if you
05:02
if in relation to any teaching if we
05:05
hear the words and then we believe them
05:07
and we go around even if we believe them
05:11
completely
05:13
it’s not going to deliver any liberation
05:14
not going to deliver any freedom but if
05:17
the words are seen as pointers meaning a
05:24
guide as to what to look at a
05:27
description of the dynamics for us to be
05:30
able to see them for ourselves and then
05:36
if an investigation for ourself happens
05:38
just when we’re living life as we’re
05:41
walking down the street thought might
05:43
arise says AHA that’s pleasure in the
05:46
moment that’s pain in the moment these
05:49
are descriptions that we will talk about
05:50
the flow of life is always either
05:53
pleasure or pain that’s inevitable so if
05:58
we find ourselves seeking we’re seekers
06:01
it happens and it’s sort of like a
06:04
disease to a degree if we find ourselves
06:08
seeking Ramesh used to start off by
06:10
saying doesn’t it make sense you might
06:12
have found yourself a seeker already for
06:14
five 10 maybe even 30 years doesn’t it
06:17
make sense to ask a very simple
06:19
practical question what am I really
06:23
looking for because it makes sense if we
06:30
haven’t asked this simple practical
06:34
question and come up with a really good
06:37
solid answer for ourselves then we might
06:41
find ourselves seeking without actually
06:44
knowing what we’re looking for
06:45
and sometimes we come up with an answer
06:48
that’s a little undefined like I’m
06:53
seeking enlightenment what is
06:57
enlightenment in practical terms so that
06:59
we really know what what the movement is
07:02
towards and so we’ve already answered
07:08
that question to a degree and that is
07:10
that what we’re really looking for
07:12
whether we realize it or not is
07:16
happiness in this life
07:22
enlightenment is happiness in this life
07:33
and what is happiness in this life for
07:35
the human being it turns out to be
07:38
completely different to what the deeply
07:40
ingrained belief is because frankly when
07:43
we look at our life to date we’ve found
07:46
that we have been seeking happiness but
07:51
the happiness that we believe is
07:53
available is a happiness in circumstance
07:56
they’re having us in outcomes so we’ve
07:59
found ourselves seeking after pleasure a
08:02
pleasure pleasure pleasure thinking
08:04
that’s where my happiness is going to be
08:06
found and then after long enough we
08:11
start to realize actually I’ve been
08:14
receiving pleasure in life for long
08:17
enough and it doesn’t deliver ongoing
08:19
happiness and that’s when the search
08:25
goes a little deeper and we find
08:28
ourselves looking beyond circumstance
08:31
we’re told to look inwards but happiness
08:35
is never done going to be found out
08:37
there that we we don’t need to add
08:43
anything to ourself we’re not missing
08:47
anything and when we look at it we find
08:51
that our movement towards pleasure
08:53
pleasure pleasure is based on a feeling
08:55
that I am missing something that when I
08:58
get that new job everything will be okay
09:01
when I find my soulmate everything will
09:05
be okay and at some point we might
09:08
realize that when I’m enlightened
09:10
everything will be okay it may well be
09:15
where our focus has shifted and the
09:18
principle can be the same that we’re
09:20
seeking happiness through enlightenment
09:22
without being clear on what it is it’s
09:26
the falling away the removal of a
09:31
certain type of thinking
09:36
contained in that thinking is
09:38
essentially this uncomfortableness with
09:42
Who I am in life
09:56
so in practical terms the forms of
10:00
suffering the human unhappiness is guilt
10:04
and blame pride worry and anxiety
10:10
expectation and attachment to outcomes
10:13
and those different forms of suffering
10:18
which is the human unhappiness that can
10:20
fall away a form of thinking that allows
10:24
for a much more spacious experience
10:27
where the core of the human being is
10:29
realized what Ramana refers to a self
10:33
something that is already complete and
10:37
doesn’t require nothing more so these
10:39
five forms of suffering when we look at
10:44
them specifically all based on two
10:48
deeply ingrained beliefs about who we
10:51
are and what life is the belief that is
10:55
at the core of guilt blame and pride is
10:57
the belief in personal doership
11:01
meaning I am I see myself as a separate
11:07
independent entity in control of
11:11
everything that I think feels say and do
11:15
so that’s actually the experience that
11:19
develops in life it’s part of our human
11:23
evolution at about the age of two the
11:27
intellect has developed enough and
11:29
that’s when the the child starts to
11:32
start using the words me and mine and
11:36
starts tantruming when it doesn’t get
11:39
what it wants so it’s just part and
11:41
because that sense that I am a separate
11:44
independent entity in control of
11:46
everything that happens through me is
11:47
there day after day moment after moment
11:50
and actually that sense is a gift the
11:54
sense of having free will which when we
11:59
analyze our experiences yes I have the
12:02
feeling that I’m free to pick up a glass
12:07
of water or raise my hand or
12:09
get up and leave so that feeling of
12:12
freewill is there and it’s a gift
12:14
we don’t want again we don’t want to
12:15
pray to God for that feeling of free
12:17
will to leave sometimes we think that’s
12:21
what it is I don’t want to feel like I’m
12:23
in control of the actions but actually
12:29
the feeling is not the problem it’s the
12:31
deeply ingrained belief that has set in
12:34
place because that feeling has been
12:35
there since a very young age and so
12:38
because the feeling is there the belief
12:40
says i am i feel like i am a separate
12:44
independent entity therefore i must be
12:47
and when we investigate the human being
12:53
and its function we find that we’re not
12:57
as isolated from life we never have been
13:01
isolated from life as we might see based
13:04
on a surface based investigation
13:11
we find an investigation I’m not the
13:14
doer I’m not actually the one that
13:18
orchestrates how life unfolds I’m not
13:21
the one that orchestrates how my actions
13:23
flow through me and my thoughts arrives
13:27
they they happen based on a very
13:30
specific design of the human instrument
13:32
an amazing vehicle through which
13:35
consciousness functions so the human
13:39
instrument the vehicle we could say is a
13:43
result of one’s genes and
13:45
up-to-date-conditioning and these genes
13:48
and up-to-date-conditioning they’re two
13:50
factors that we’ve never had any control
13:52
over we’re an intricately intricately
14:00
designed instrument designed to function
14:03
exactly the way we function in each
14:05
moment and often with the back and we
14:11
say oh I should have acted differently
14:13
you couldn’t have acted differently you
14:15
weren’t designed to act differently
14:18
given the circumstance if you had acted
14:21
differently it would be because the
14:24
circumstance would have been slightly
14:26
different or your makeup was slightly
14:28
different so if we come to see this that
14:31
actually everyone is always functioning
14:33
in each moment exactly as they’re
14:35
destined to function according to their
14:38
genes and up-to-date-conditioning I
14:40
think not believe it based on someone
14:44
just said it Ramana says it in into more
14:48
elegant words to add even more esoteric
14:50
words whatever is destined to happen
14:53
will happen whatever is destined not to
14:57
happen no matter how great a force in
14:59
the universe tries to make it happen
15:01
will not happen
15:05
meaning in each moment everything is
15:08
happening according to God’s will and we
15:12
are part of the creation part of the
15:14
manifestation part of God’s will and as
15:18
part of the manifestation life has
15:20
embedded in us a deeply ingrained belief
15:22
to the contrary doesn’t make it true it
15:26
just means that we have a a view of life
15:29
that is out of line with what is
15:32
actually happening a view of life in a
15:36
view of our self
15:37
I am the doer and if I see myself as the
15:39
doer if I if I don’t know myself other
15:43
than the doer meaning an independent
15:47
entity with full volition meaning in
15:51
control of what I say and what I do and
15:53
what I feel and what I think and we also
15:55
think in control of the outcomes of what
15:57
I say and think and do if we see
16:03
ourselves this way we have to see the
16:04
other the same way well you’re a
16:05
separate independent entity that’s the
16:07
separation a separation that doesn’t
16:10
exist so if we see ourselves like this
16:15
and we function a way that delivers
16:18
painful outcomes to ourself or to the
16:20
other then we can’t deny that pain has
16:27
been delivered to the other or to
16:29
ourselves through the the actions of
16:30
this body mind organism this person if
16:35
we see ourselves as a separate
16:36
independent that we’re going to hate
16:37
ourselves feel guilt and shame now their
16:43
guilt and shame is not the pain that
16:45
happened it’s our attitude to the pain
16:48
an attitude that we’re forced to have by
16:53
life because life has designed us up to
16:58
this point in time that way now the good
17:01
news is that our makeup is based on our
17:04
genes and up-to-date-conditioning and
17:07
life is delivering new conditioning
17:10
moment after moment after moment
17:14
so we’ve received throughout our life
17:16
conditioning at home in school through
17:21
the religious institutions that were
17:23
part of the political environment the
17:26
cultural environment and then we come
17:28
across spirituality and Ramesh would say
17:31
make no mistake these talks are simply
17:34
new conditioning a conditioning that can
17:39
change our up-to-date conditioning and
17:43
sometimes our conditioning can change
17:45
such that it completely revolutionizes
17:49
our up-to-date-conditioning such that
17:52
the belief in personal doership can fall
17:55
away and then our attitude to life can
18:00
change completely an attitude that may
18:04
no longer include the arising of
18:08
suffering no longer include the
18:11
uncomfortableness with oneself or the
18:14
uncomfortableness towards jana why
18:17
because when we look at this
18:18
uncomfortableness this suffering we find
18:22
that as I mentioned the first three
18:24
forms of it guilt blame and pride based
18:29
on the deeply ingrained belief I’m the
18:32
doer and you’re the doer so when an
18:36
action happens through me that delivers
18:40
pain to myself or the other I have to
18:42
see myself as to do I hate myself oh I
18:45
should have done it differently and when
18:49
the other delivers pain to me I have to
18:52
hate them you hurt me I hate you it’s
18:57
not optional it’s automatic functioning
19:01
that happens based on the way that life
19:05
has designed us so suffering is a very
19:11
understandable part of life
19:21
if we can come to understand that
19:23
suffering is a happening like everything
19:25
else part of destiny not my doing if
19:29
life has designed me to be judgmental
19:34
which is a form of blame towards Yana
19:38
well that’s how we’re going to function
19:41
so we might have the intention or I want
19:44
to stop blaming the other but unless
19:46
something fundamental changes in us that
19:50
blame isn’t going to stop so if we
19:52
realize okay when I when I’m blaming
19:54
it’s a result of my makeup in this
19:57
moment functioning then there can be a
19:59
relaxation with the fact that blame is
20:02
happening so if someone suggests that oh
20:10
I’d like to accept
20:17
and they try to accept but they’re not
20:21
actually looking at what non-acceptance
20:23
is and what it’s based on then they
20:28
might be making a whole lot of effort to
20:30
accept when their fundamental makeup is
20:34
such that acceptance is not designed to
20:36
happen and then what happens is there’s
20:38
a frustration I’m frustrated that I
20:41
can’t accept things as they are so if we
20:45
start to see the the dynamics of things
20:48
this acceptance this freedom from layers
20:53
of suffering starts to happen
20:54
automatically so I’ll tell you a little
21:02
bit of a little story about how I met
21:06
Ramesh because to be honest when I
21:09
turned up at Ramesh I heard a talk a bit
21:12
like this and to be honest I said no
21:15
this isn’t what it’s all about there’s
21:17
too many words here I had been immersed
21:21
in the teachings of nisargadatta and
21:23
Ramana and Jesus and several other
21:28
top-down Advaita teachings the Course in
21:33
Miracles and those teachings to me are
21:40
extremely profound they’re a beautiful
21:45
addition to the suite of spiritual
21:48
teachings and so having been exposed to
21:52
those teachings for several years and
21:55
had having had radical shifts where the
22:00
oneness of consciousness where
22:03
everything was seen to be arising in
22:05
consciousness where the sense of being
22:07
the body had fallen away where there was
22:11
a sense of not being located anywhere
22:13
being formless being the very awareness
22:18
that recognized everything that arose in
22:20
it and then I heard Ramesh talking about
22:24
the human being and I thought well I
22:27
think
22:28
come to the wrong place and what had
22:35
happened is that I heard about Ramesh
22:38
when I bet this is back in 2004 when I
22:43
was looking something up on the internet
22:45
about I am that and it said translator
22:49
of Nyssa Gaddafi Maharaj giving talks in
22:52
Mumbai and I had such a love for
22:54
nisargadatta because of the
22:55
transformation that had happened through
22:57
the teachings and by that time also for
23:00
Ramana that I said I want to go and meet
23:03
Ramesh not I didn’t know what Ramesh was
23:05
talking about but simply as a connection
23:09
as a bridge to nisargadatta so I booked
23:12
a stopover in Mumbai for 36 hours on my
23:16
way from Australia to Europe just to go
23:22
to one satsang to pay my respects and
23:27
when I got there the room was it was a
23:30
small room with about 25 of those
23:33
plastic seats lined up five rows of four
23:36
or something like that and there were
23:40
just two seats left and they were right
23:44
at the front and I thought my good luck
23:46
I guess so I walked up and I asked if
23:49
anyone was sitting there and no one
23:52
claimed them so I sat down and why don’t
23:53
see the other seat remained empty and
23:56
Ramesh came in and sat down and I was
24:00
curious to see where and he looked
24:02
straight at me and he said how can I
24:04
help you and so I looked behind me
24:09
thank thinking you know he was talking
24:11
to someone behind me but he was looking
24:13
at me I realized and you know oh these
24:15
are the hot seats
24:18
not what I intended so we had a little
24:25
chat and at the end of the satsang this
24:33
is where I sort of had my idea I don’t
24:35
think this is really this is sort of
24:37
kindergarten spirituality and it started
24:45
raining that thing and raining and
24:48
raining and raining and raining it
24:49
turned out that these were the heaviest
24:51
rains and somebody had seen in years and
24:54
the airport was closed for nine days and
24:58
so there I was I turned up day after day
25:02
after day it didn’t take you know it
25:04
only it was only on the first day that I
25:06
read that I thought I was in the wrong
25:08
place
25:09
and on the second day something he said
25:12
pierced through to a place in my heart
25:17
that hadn’t yet been touched I realized
25:21
there was still because I had a lot of
25:24
peace in my in my life the realizations
25:27
were stable and I was living I thought
25:32
as not the human being you know I am NOT
25:35
the human being and so in one of the
25:40
discussions now I sort of condensed it
25:42
all down into the first three days it
25:43
wasn’t necessarily in the first three
25:45
days but just to give you an idea some
25:46
of it was in the first two days Ramesh
25:52
after hearing me talk about the my
25:56
understanding of what Nyssa got artists
25:58
teaching was because he had asked and I
26:00
said well yes Agatha says we are
26:03
consciousness we are not the body or we
26:06
are awareness everything arises inside
26:09
what I am as awareness or what’s
26:11
consciousness and so Ramesh then asked
26:19
me a question after having heard a
26:21
fairly lengthy explanation about the
26:23
nature of life from me
26:26
since so who’s speaking to whom and I
26:30
said well this is great you could say
26:32
that consciousness is speaking with
26:33
consciousness and then consciousness
26:37
listens to consciousness it’s all a play
26:40
of consciousness now I didn’t know that
26:42
that was a key part of Ramesh’s teaching
26:45
that all there is is consciousness
26:48
instead he leant forward out of his
26:52
range and he said Roger don’t be
26:55
ridiculous
26:56
Roger speaks to Ramesh and Ramesh
26:59
listens and then Ramesh speaks to Roger
27:03
and Roger listens and so this was part
27:06
of me thinking I really have come to the
27:08
wrong place because for three or four
27:11
years through the process it was a
27:12
process of seeing that Roger and Ramesh
27:15
don’t exist there is no Roger and there
27:20
is no ray there’s just the self for
27:23
consciousness
27:31
now I look back on I said but you know
27:33
why didn’t he agree with me this is in
27:34
his teaching all there is is
27:36
consciousness because a teaching is
27:39
exactly that it’s not the truth it’s a
27:42
teaching to undo what needs to be undone
27:45
at a particular point in time
27:47
and so what was needed was at that point
27:51
to refocus on the practical just because
28:00
our experience changes and some people
28:04
would say no it’s changed and it’s not
28:06
experienced anymore and that’s just
28:09
technicalities about how we define a
28:11
word because sometimes the word
28:12
experience is defined as if there is a
28:14
subject object relationship then that’s
28:17
experience and experiences illusion you
28:20
know what we’re looking for is freedom
28:22
from illusion where we’re looking for is
28:25
to know reality and reality is oneness
28:27
and so reality according to some
28:32
teachings which are very valid are not
28:34
there’s not a criticism of teachings to
28:36
me teachings are there to do a job and I
28:42
have the utmost respect for teachings as
28:45
teachings so if a teaching says that the
28:50
reality is oneness an experience is when
28:54
there is a subject object relationship
28:56
in that separation and so awakening to
28:59
reality is the falling away of subject
29:01
object relationship and that can happen
29:06
if we receive conditioning through
29:12
spiritual teachings conditioning that is
29:16
aimed at us in a very particular way for
29:20
good reason the brain will start to
29:23
function differently certain faculties
29:26
of the brain will change the structure
29:29
of the brain will change and what can
29:33
happen are these shifts out of the what
29:36
seemed like out of the blue they’re not
29:38
out of the blue they’re happening as the
29:40
brain structure is changing because the
29:42
brain is receiving
29:44
and being pointed at things and starting
29:47
to focus on things it wasn’t focusing on
29:49
before starting to focus on the
29:52
experience the momentary experience the
29:55
present moment experience rather than
29:58
being lost in thoughts about the past in
30:00
the future and as it does that it’s
30:03
changing the brain structure is changing
30:05
and it can awaken is what we would say
30:08
awakened to self self is is the very
30:13
background of our experience of life
30:15
always has been just because that
30:18
experience changes doesn’t mean that
30:22
that is truth or that is reality it’s a
30:27
very significant shift that has happened
30:30
it’s a shift that has enabled the brain
30:33
or our awareness to not be highly
30:39
identified with all of the objects that
30:41
arise to be able to take a witnessing
30:45
position to remain quiet so those
30:52
changes that happen are significant
30:56
they’re profound but unless it starts –
30:59
unless it’s presented to us and what are
31:01
we really looking for we’re looking for
31:05
happiness the end of suffering we can
31:08
easily get caught up in waiting for
31:12
certain shifts thinking that that is
31:16
enlightenment so on my second visit to
31:21
Ramesh I had been three or four years of
31:27
fairly significant peak experiences
31:30
happening and one really significant one
31:34
happened and I booked a ticket
31:37
about two or three days after it
31:39
happened and it was this oneness
31:44
experience where the sense of being the
31:46
body fell away the formless awareness
31:49
that I was all pervading in which
31:54
everything was arising everything made
31:55
of this
31:58
it was an experience that was of all of
32:02
that and was highly profound and so I
32:07
had to go and talk to remeasure about it
32:09
tell him what had happened so I I turned
32:13
up and he said I Roger nice to see you
32:15
what brings you back and I said well
32:17
actually I’d like to share something
32:20
with you and I described the experience
32:22
using all the right terminology not to
32:26
mistake it with anything dualistic I was
32:29
very adept at using the non-dual
32:33
terminology which is what is in part
32:36
brings about the shifts and when I
32:41
finished explaining that I am the
32:45
formless awareness that witnesses the
32:47
body that felt like if someone came
32:48
along and chopped off my arms they
32:51
wouldn’t be touching what I am and he
32:57
said Roger don’t worry about it it was
32:58
just an experience so I sort of
33:06
scratched my head again I saw I
33:07
described again sort of in case I had
33:10
left some bits out but maybe he didn’t
33:14
understand I’m not talking about
33:16
experiment in my mind back then it was
33:18
the end of experience what we were and
33:22
reality essentially so after the second
33:27
time Roger don’t worry about it was just
33:28
an experience so I had a third go you
33:31
know just hopefully maybe Roger don’t
33:35
worry about it was just an experience so
33:39
once again I felt maybe he doesn’t know
33:44
maybe this hasn’t happened to him so he
33:49
doesn’t know and this was my
33:51
relationship with remission that for a
33:54
few years but I have to tell you and so
33:57
for anyone here there is an opportunity
34:01
I don’t mind if you come back or not
34:02
okay but this particular teaching I
34:06
haven’t really got into it it’s
34:07
structured in a way
34:10
that delivers what a lot of others don’t
34:13
now that doesn’t say it’s a better
34:14
teaching all the teachings they dovetail
34:17
in with each other one takes over where
34:20
the other left off and it’s not this one
34:23
first in this one after necessarily
34:25
sometimes for some people this one comes
34:27
first and the other one comes after but
34:31
if I didn’t come across ramesh who takes
34:34
the teaching from a practical
34:35
perspective I could well still be in the
34:40
same roundabout space I was in for those
34:43
three years before meeting Ramesh for
34:46
another waiting for the ultimate shift
34:50
not realizing that it’s not about these
34:54
shifts the shifts are significant
34:55
because they change things but at the
34:58
end of the day what needs to change is
35:01
the way that our thinking about life
35:07
that’s what needs to change and only a
35:10
specific type of thinking the thinking
35:12
that creates an uncomfortableness with
35:15
what’s happening so I speak from my own
35:18
direct experience where suffering hasn’t
35:22
been part of my life experience really
35:25
since about 2001 but there were little
35:28
bits and pieces up to meeting Ramesh and
35:31
then in 2007 there was a week of things
35:36
getting a bit shaken up I know I’d say
35:38
after that week in 2007 suffering hasn’t
35:42
arisen now I still get angry angry is
35:45
not suffering one of the actually the
35:49
last the last unclarity lack of clarity
35:56
when I save a lot but the process never
35:58
ends it’s an ongoing process when we’re
36:00
talking about this suffering part of the
36:03
process when it stops you know it’s
36:06
stopped
36:07
the last part was that it wasn’t clear
36:13
to me that anger is not suffering and so
36:17
in some of the visits to to Ramesh
36:21
one of the concepts in the teaching and
36:23
say that anger is just a biological
36:26
reaction now biological reactions are a
36:28
different category to the psychological
36:30
reactions of suffering sadness is just a
36:34
biological reaction not suffering so I
36:37
keep saying to it I say Ramesh but I’m
36:39
when I’m present with my my experience
36:42
mate when I’m really with what is when
36:49
I’m angry they’re suffering and
36:52
uncomfortableness and he said over and
36:55
over Roger
36:56
anger is just a biological reaction it’s
36:58
not suffering and it was only after a
37:02
certain event happened in a supermarket
37:04
that it clicked and I said I wonder if
37:07
he’s because I I couldn’t I couldn’t
37:09
believe the statement I couldn’t
37:11
understand the statement that said anger
37:13
is not suffering my experience was it is
37:18
and then I realized that what I was
37:21
feeling the suffer that was suffering
37:23
there but it wasn’t because of the anger
37:24
was because of my attitude to the anger
37:26
once again it’s always attitudinal and
37:28
my attitude was one of subtly resisting
37:32
when the anger was there because I
37:35
believe that enlightenment was going to
37:37
be the end of anger and so if that
37:41
expectation is there my expectation of
37:44
what enlightenment is which was a wrong
37:46
expectation of in look at nigga Dada
37:48
he wasn’t free of anger
37:54
did win in a row
38:02
ah that’s I’ve got this idea angle or
38:06
will end so when it doesn’t end this
38:09
something inside all the process hasn’t
38:10
happened and there’s a resistance to it
38:13
and so when that clicked and I saw that
38:16
what I was feeling when anger arose
38:19
wasn’t just anger was anger plus
38:21
expectation anger plus guilt or blame
38:26
blame towards the person that would made
38:28
me angry that proved that this
38:30
enlightenment hadn’t happened whoa
38:33
shame towards myself that it I haven’t
38:37
you know it hasn’t happened yet well
38:42
what if he’s right what if anger is just
38:44
a biological reaction and I say I
38:48
haven’t considered that to be the case
38:50
and so two weeks later I was in my
38:54
property in Australia taking my dogs for
38:58
a walk
38:58
and there’s a
39:08
sort of 40 kilo dogs and they were both
39:13
on one side I was on the other side and
39:15
so then I straddled the fence and his
39:16
barbed wire so I’m straddling the barbed
39:18
wire and then the dogs catch sight of
39:21
two kangaroos and I’m looking at the
39:24
dogs
39:24
daling in the kangaroos and I’m got
39:27
straddling barbed wire and I’m holding
39:28
on to the leads and they are about to
39:31
chase after the dogs not a good
39:33
situation and
39:37
and that was anger and was the first
39:41
time anger arose without any judgment of
39:44
him and it was that angers a biological
39:49
reaction it’s not suffering and that’s
39:56
how the process works something needs
39:58
the description needs to sink in we need
40:03
to understand what the description is
40:05
saying and when we understand when we
40:08
really understand that it changes
40:10
something and then without any effort
40:14
the anger arose and the old attachment
40:18
to anger not being there didn’t arise
40:21
with it and it became very clear anger I
40:24
had no problem being angry it made sense
40:28
if I didn’t get angry in the
40:30
circumstance I would have ended up with
40:33
a ripped eye
40:43
so let’s just get back onto the
40:46
framework for a little bit then I’ll
40:47
open up there’s a microphone and if you
40:51
have some questions we can run with that
40:53
I’d also given we’re in thorough and the
40:57
teachings of Raman are which on I was
41:00
intimately familiar with they were a big
41:02
part of the the shifts that happen given
41:05
there here I’d welcome any questions
41:07
that want to know how the two tie
41:12
together
41:13
how are we talking about the same thing
41:15
when it can sound like we’re not
41:17
sometimes depending on how are you here
41:20
so because this comes from the daily
41:24
living practical side of things and we
41:27
ask this question that what am I really
41:29
looking for in the suggestion is we’re
41:30
looking for happiness and happiness
41:33
turns out to be this is before we come
41:36
across certain teachings happiness turns
41:40
out to be peace of mind that’s all the
41:45
end of suffering and suffering is always
41:48
attitudinal to circumstance not
41:50
circumstantial it’s circumstance itself
41:52
which means the good news is that life
41:55
can continue to unfold the way it does
41:57
sometimes pleasure and sometimes pain
41:59
that’s an inevitability if anyone thinks
42:01
that life is one day going to magically
42:04
become pleasure pleasure pleasure
42:05
pleasure pleasure if that’s what they
42:07
are hoping for and thinking that
42:09
happiness will come because one day life
42:12
is pleasure pleasure pleasure
42:13
I’d say that’s not going to happen
42:14
that’s not the nature of life you’re
42:16
going to stub your toe coconuts are
42:19
gonna fall on your head and people that
42:21
you love are gonna die
42:27
money’s gonna get stolen you’re gonna
42:29
miss planes all of that is pain in the
42:32
moment anything that is out of line with
42:36
your biological preference is going to
42:39
be painful and to think that one day we
42:45
won’t have any preferences is to miss
42:49
some of the nuances there’s a big
42:51
difference between your preferences and
42:54
being attached to your preferences being
42:57
delivered
42:58
so the flow of life is always going to
43:01
be later all pain pleasure if is
43:06
delivered in the moment is in line with
43:08
your preferences your biological
43:10
preferences then it’s pleasure if it’s
43:12
out of line with your biological
43:13
preferences its pain my unhappiness is
43:17
always attitudinal and not
43:18
circumstantial then we start to see the
43:23
layers for our self based on our own
43:25
experience because what happens is will
43:28
find that a painful situation happens in
43:31
the course of ordinary daily living and
43:34
our attitude to the other attitude that
43:39
arises is the attitude of attachment to
43:42
outcomes
43:44
so if suffering is going to come to an
43:47
end the attitude that is currently in
43:51
place has to dissolve the two added
43:54
cygnets one attitude but the two subsets
43:56
of it is the attitude of personal
43:58
doership and the attitude of attachment
44:01
to outcomes if that attitude doesn’t
44:04
dissolve then the guilt the blame and
44:06
the pride all based on seeing myself as
44:09
the doer and the other as the door has
44:11
to keep happening and if attachment to
44:15
outcomes doesn’t dissolve then the
44:17
expectation and the resistance when our
44:20
expectation isn’t delivered has to keep
44:22
happening and so if we can get
44:27
explanations of how we can come to see
44:31
the non doer ship in life come to see
44:35
that this belief of personal doership is
44:37
fictitious
44:40
then our attitude changes it can be as
44:43
simple as that so one explanation that
44:51
can help us see that I’m not the doer is
44:53
the one that I put forward very simply
44:54
the human being on a biological and
44:56
psychological level the vehicle through
44:59
which consciousness functions and the
45:02
human being is the combination of the
45:04
vehicle and the consciousness so we are
45:09
the human being Ramesh was very right
45:11
when he said don’t be ridiculous Roger
45:13
because I thought I was consciousness
45:16
consciousness or awareness self is an
45:18
aspect of the human being an aspect that
45:22
has always been there but we haven’t
45:25
registered so we’ve always been the
45:28
human being will always be the human
45:30
being we were a human being that didn’t
45:33
recognize the consciousness aspect then
45:36
we are a human being that has a direct
45:39
knowing and appreciation of the
45:41
consciousness that is the core of the
45:44
human being on a biological and
45:47
psychological level they are all a
45:50
result of the vehicle so the vehicle is
45:54
the genes and up-to-date-conditioning so
45:57
the genes that the sperm and the egg
45:59
come together once they join it starts
46:02
to grow
46:11
you
46:14
we’re a result of that growing process
46:17
we didn’t do the growing that was part
46:20
of the biological intelligence so the
46:24
vehicle started to form the genetics and
46:28
as it started to form at the said the
46:31
moment is said to form it was impacted
46:33
by life so even in the womb the fetus is
46:37
being impacted by all sorts of things by
46:40
you know sounds and movements and all
46:44
the chemicals and stuff and so we’re
46:47
continually being conditioned by life
46:50
and and we grow and at some point the
46:54
heart starts beating and the brain
46:57
starts functioning we didn’t do it it
46:59
happened and then the baby is born and
47:03
the conditioning continues and we
47:07
continue to grow and we were a result of
47:09
these two factors together genes and
47:12
up-to-date-conditioning so at this point
47:14
in time I’m a result of my genes and
47:18
up-to-date-conditioning and everyone
47:21
else is a result of their genes
47:22
up-to-date-conditioning
47:25
and we function according to our design
47:30
so were biological instruments designed
47:36
to function one way in each moment now
47:41
we don’t need to have a degree in
47:44
genetics it’s just a very simple
47:46
principle it’s like if a chemical
47:50
chemical has a certain chemical
47:52
composition another chemical now they
47:54
come together and they react one way or
47:58
another inert or explosive or something
48:01
in between now they don’t decide how to
48:03
react right it’s just a result of their
48:06
makeup and how that the makeup of the
48:08
two of them in the particular
48:10
environment impersonally react and the
48:14
human being is a very complex version of
48:17
this chemical and we just don’t see
48:20
ourselves this way
48:25
if we can find a third factor third
48:27
factor that we’re in control of then the
48:30
theory sort of doesn’t make sense
48:33
but as we look at it and we see there is
48:35
no third factor on a biological and
48:37
psychological level everything is
48:40
happening according to this instrument
48:41
and as it seemed more and more one day
48:44
there can be this flashes I I simply
48:47
cannot be the doer
48:48
that’s what Ramesh would say is the the
48:52
really powerful insight is like I cannot
48:56
be the doer not just on an intellectual
48:59
level it starts off on an intellectual
49:01
level as its investigated and seen each
49:06
time a reaction happens and we realize
49:07
I’m speaking English because I was
49:09
conditioned in English I don’t suddenly
49:11
start speaking Japanese I can’t but if I
49:14
was conditioned in Japanese that’s what
49:17
would come out and the same if I was
49:19
attacked by a dog and I see a dog and
49:22
fear arises then we might realize our
49:24
that’s a result of my genes and after
49:26
they couldn’t she of course I’m gonna
49:27
feel afraid of the dog
49:32
this is profound it’s not how we see
49:35
ourselves so we know our self is the
49:38
doer and I imagine this but if we’re not
49:40
the doer what if no one has ever been
49:43
the doer in all of history life has
49:46
always been happening according to
49:49
everyone’s design and how everything
49:51
inter interconnects the story of life
49:54
the manifestation the creation no
49:59
separation those separate independent
50:01
doer imagine that and we go around.i hey
50:06
why why did you act that way I hate you
50:09
for acting that way why did I act that
50:11
way I’m full of shame then that’s the
50:15
illusion that’s the illusion that can
50:21
fall away
50:27
and with this new perspective which is
50:32
really just the absence of the old
50:34
perspective of personal derision
50:36
it’s understood when pain is delivered
50:39
it’s my destiny to receive pain destiny
50:45
of the other to deliver that pain to me
50:48
we’re all playing our roles in life and
50:53
it’s not personal now if this other
51:03
aspect the attachment to outcome part
51:07
wasn’t so I’ll explain we have an
51:11
attachment to outcome because we believe
51:12
that our happiness is dependent on
51:14
outcomes we believe that our
51:17
completeness is to be found in pleasure
51:19
pleasure pleasure and outcomes somewhere
51:21
in the future now if that was true the
51:27
fact that we’re not the doer and the
51:29
other is in the doer is not going to
51:31
help me when pain is delivered to me
51:34
because I’m still being attacked if my
51:39
completeness was dependent on pleasure
51:41
pleasure pleasure the good news is that
51:45
the human being is such has the nature
51:49
of being complete in this moment it’s
51:51
just covered up so if we start
51:54
connecting into that place
51:56
many of us have where even in the face
52:00
of pain we drop in we find I’m still
52:08
here I am NOT a thought but a direct
52:16
emanating knowing of the core of our
52:20
being if it’s a place we’ve dropped into
52:24
time and time again and we know the
52:25
regardless of what happens even when a
52:28
loved one dies there’s sadness but if we
52:32
drop in to the core of our being
52:37
I I still AM as I was before my loved
52:43
one died now this doesn’t mean that the
52:46
sadness isn’t there this is the beauties
52:48
that we’re not getting rid of the
52:52
biological we’re still obviously going
52:54
to be sad that you know pleasure and
52:58
pain and a different on a level on a
53:00
certain level though the body has its
53:03
preferences one is pleasurable to the
53:06
biological and one is painful so there
53:11
can be sadness for our loss but that
53:14
sadness doesn’t have the capacity to
53:18
disconnect us from ourselves
53:20
once that recognition has happened
53:24
enough we can need them yeah or you can
53:32
put the air conditioning on for a bit
53:34
and we’re on a lower temperature yeah
53:39
okay so or open some windows so the you
53:52
know if if our attention hasn’t turned
53:55
inwards we’re forced to seek the best we
54:01
can in life which is and the best that
54:03
we know is pleasure play pleasure and
54:05
pleasure is better than pain and so
54:08
that’s why this attachment to outcome is
54:11
there and that’s why the seeking for
54:17
pleasure pleasure pleasure happened so
54:19
once there’s this turning inward and
54:21
there’s a realization our my happiness
54:24
my completeness is not to be found in
54:27
outcomes when an outcome that is painful
54:31
happens we understand that’s part of the
54:33
flow of life sometimes pleasure and
54:35
sometimes pain we’re going to die of old
54:39
age if not because of something before
54:42
then
54:44
it’s you know we look at the nature of
54:48
life and it’s a mix of pleasure and pain
54:54
so the freedom comes from knowing
54:58
ourself at a deeper level and knowing
55:03
that the circumstance doesn’t touch what
55:07
I am at my core
55:26
the first part is to recognize this
55:30
happening
55:30
not to resisted but to see that there is
55:35
an attachment to outcome that’s
55:41
fantastic if we see the doer in us
55:43
doesn’t isn’t interested in seeing as an
55:45
attachment the doer wants to fix it now
55:49
how do I control life and fix it the
55:53
doer can’t fix it the doer didn’t create
55:56
the genes and up-to-date-conditioning
55:58
life did that so life put in place the
56:02
attachment to outcomes or as part of the
56:05
up-to-date-conditioning then the doer
56:07
jumps in and says oh I’ve seen it now I
56:08
tell how do I fix it or you don’t even
56:11
need to tell me I’m going to fix it and
56:15
life fixes it by delivering new
56:21
conditioning so simply seeing it and
56:29
inevitably the doer at first is going to
56:31
jump in and try and fix it and then
56:33
seeing that is the dissolving of that
56:38
once it becomes clear that’s not the
56:40
answer if we haven’t had a description
56:45
of the problem in clear practical simple
56:50
terms it’s very hard to see it so guilt
56:58
blame and pride
56:59
guilt is a hating oneself for those
57:02
actions that have happened through us
57:04
that have hurt hurt myself or the other
57:06
because I believe that I was the one
57:08
that controlled what happened through me
57:12
blame seeing pain delivered to me
57:16
through the other and seeing them as the
57:19
door and well you hurt me I hate you
57:22
pride is when things happen through me
57:25
that deliver a good outcome to myself
57:29
for the others and then I claim
57:30
ownership look what I achieved as the
57:33
doer so it’s the same it’s a pride as a
57:37
lighter version of suffering than blame
57:39
and
57:40
the later version of suffering than
57:42
shame guilt they’re still forms of
57:47
suffering based on the same principle of
57:50
personal dosha so the first part is just
57:53
to see it happening see it arising and
57:57
know what it is it’s a it’s an arising a
58:00
happening based on the deeply ingrained
58:02
belief of personal dosha and as we maybe
58:11
start to comprehend that life is all a
58:14
happening according to God’s will a
58:16
predetermined story unfolding a creation
58:20
and and I don’t expect you just to
58:23
believe that that’s the that’s one
58:25
explanation that has certain shifts and
58:29
perspectives of life happen is
58:31
acceptable from our own experience where
58:34
we can we witness the flow of life
58:36
happening where no one is doing it
58:39
that’s one way of seeing it and in this
58:44
notion of personal doership
58:46
starts to get attacked the other is when
58:50
we understand that of course I couldn’t
58:51
have acted differently because I’m
58:53
designed in this moment a particular way
58:56
and in this moment this is what has been
58:59
the reaction that doesn’t mean that we
59:01
won’t learn from that reaction and that
59:03
learning is going to change our up today
59:05
so in the next moment we will act
59:08
differently but still the principle is
59:10
the same the next moment we’re acting
59:12
based on our genes and
59:13
up-to-date-conditioning not my doing if
59:18
this becomes so that doesn’t require any
59:20
esoteric beliefs and so the doer ship
59:24
can get attacked from whichever angle
59:26
resonates with you the fact is that as
59:31
we see life more and more clearly we see
59:35
that there is a fictional character
59:38
which is really a belief that claims
59:42
ownership over everything that is
59:45
happening according to God’s will or
59:48
according to life’s will because God
59:52
is loaded now what I mean by God but
59:57
Ramesh meant my God is not a separate
59:59
God out there so here is a small part of
60:05
the teaching that is the sort of
60:08
theoretical top-down that consciousness
60:11
at rest source absolute nothing pure
60:17
potentiality at some point explodes into
60:22
manifestation the potential becomes the
60:26
actual it becomes actualized so God
60:30
which is this bubbling potentiality
60:33
source explodes into manifestation
60:37
becomes the manifestation becomes the
60:41
ocean and the rivers and the trees and
60:43
the sky and the Sun and the humans
60:47
becomes the whole thing from beginning
60:51
to end becomes the story of life and the
60:59
story of life at some point will return
61:01
to its potentiality source at rest ready
61:05
to manifest into the next manifestation
61:08
so if you want you can look at life from
61:11
the beginning of time to the end of time
61:12
as the manifestation source or God has
61:16
become the whole story of life so this
61:18
is what I mean by the story of life the
61:21
unfolding of life is all a happening
61:23
according to God’s will now I don’t mean
61:25
God out there looking in but God has
61:27
become all of this including you and I
61:31
and everyone else or you can look at
61:35
source at rest becoming this present
61:38
moment and this present moment returning
61:41
back to nothing and re-emerging in the
61:44
next moment is everything falling back
61:47
into nothing emerging is everything and
61:51
what we know we’re part of the
61:53
everything we only know the everything
61:55
even God itself doesn’t know itself in
62:00
it’s at rest state
62:03
source addressed not even aware of
62:06
itself so source becomes aware of itself
62:10
in manifestation
62:33
so this silence but often spoken about
62:38
it’s a silence that comes from dropping
62:41
into our being where the thinking mind
62:44
and the thinking mind is based on this
62:46
attitude of doer ship and attachment to
62:49
outcome
62:49
has nothing to think about that thinking
62:55
stops so when there’s nothing practical
62:58
to do no practical interaction no need
63:02
of the working mind which is still
63:04
thankfully a faculty that remains after
63:07
the collapse of the thinking mind when
63:11
the working mind isn’t needed then there
63:14
is a silence of stillness and a
63:17
beingness and even when the working mind
63:22
kicks in it doesn’t disturb that
63:24
beingness because it doesn’t arise with
63:27
the same uncomfortableness the working
63:29
mind is no longer it is it never was the
63:33
working mind doesn’t have the makeup of
63:35
being attached to outcomes saying I need
63:37
this to happen in order for me to be
63:39
complete that was the role of the
63:41
thinking mind
63:46
I’ve spoken for long enough I think if I
63:50
if we didn’t put it into context we’ll
63:52
get all sorts of questions about the
63:54
dimensions and aliens and stuff so um
63:59
there’s microphone if anyone’s
64:03
interested in Roger you have a teaching
64:13
right sure and as I see it generally all
64:18
teachers ramana maharishi – no show –
64:20
hey Carter there is a teaching but the
64:24
core of all these teaching is non
64:26
devotion non doing and there is no doer
64:31
but every teaching implies there is a
64:33
doer by a contradiction everybody well
64:37
so it’s a great question so you’re
64:39
saying well if there’s no doer who are
64:40
you talking to essentially who are you
64:43
instructing no I’m not in stop just
64:46
talking to you yeah
64:47
no no but it’s not your question to me
64:49
yes like if there is no doer no I’m not
64:53
talking about me no I’m just talking
64:54
about the general adviser teaching from
64:57
time immemorial from Adi Shankara to
64:59
Ramana Maharishi – has been that there
65:04
is one consciousness and everything
65:06
happens on its own but every teaching
65:08
implies there is a doer it may be Roger
65:11
it may be Raman Maharishi is like Who am
65:13
I or somebody else telling you know do
65:16
this and do that is that not a
65:18
contradiction it’s a contradiction when
65:22
the mind hears the teaching through the
65:25
filter of doership
65:26
so I’m absolutely clear that there is no
65:31
doer but so I’m not telling a doer to do
65:35
anything but you are absolutely clear
65:38
there is no doer and I I feel there is
65:41
no doer
65:41
but I am I have come to a satsang to
65:43
listen to earth teaching by a teacher
65:45
and that teaching implies doership no I
65:48
know what you’re saying yeah you’re
65:50
correct well tell you why it doesn’t
65:52
imply the worship it implies it implies
65:55
doer ship if it’s heard a certain way so
65:59
whatever is said is a teaching now some
66:04
teachings to avoid this without because
66:07
I won’t they say it’s too hard to
66:09
explain I won’t explain it I’ll just say
66:11
that I’m not delivering a teaching there
66:14
is no student and there’s no teaching
66:16
and there’s no teacher that’s how some
66:20
teachings which are teachings
66:23
avoid the the dynamic that you’re
66:27
speaking of in the student they keep
66:30
saying there’s no teaching and there’s
66:31
no teacher and there’s no student and
66:36
yet it’s the it’s a teaching that says
66:40
there’s no teaching hmm it’s like they
66:43
say that the part of no part yes the
66:46
core Zen koan that the way of no way but
66:49
when you say that automatically it
66:51
implies there is a way and the
66:52
outstanding example is Tony person
66:54
there’s nothing there’s nothing and when
66:55
he says that he is delivering a message
66:57
there is a teaching implied even with
66:59
Tony person absolutely even if we told
67:01
that there is no teaching it is a
67:03
teaching that’s saying that saying that
67:06
is the teaching right so why doesn’t it
67:10
imply that there is a doer by teaching
67:15
what is happen what is happening is the
67:19
teaching is new conditioning but it is a
67:22
doer ship it’s a doer ship it doesn’t
67:25
require a doer for new conditioning to
67:27
affect the body mind organism the life
67:31
has always been affecting the body mind
67:33
organism it’s like if life throws mud at
67:36
a wall and it sticks then there has been
67:41
a change but it doesn’t reply a require
67:43
a doer for that change to happen in fact
67:47
that’s always how life has been
67:49
happening and the belief in doer ship
67:52
says change happened because I made it
67:54
happen whereas actually change is always
67:56
happening for a different reason not
67:59
because someone did it but because life
68:02
delivers something new which affects
68:05
what was there before but again coming
68:08
to the same question is not any teaching
68:10
and instruction any teaching now so once
68:13
again how we hear it so let’s make it
68:15
everything that is said is a description
68:17
not a prescription yeah that’s the best
68:22
way to answer the non-dual ship that
68:25
everything is a description and not a
68:26
prescription yeah but then sit down and
68:28
do this generally generally so let it
68:31
let it sink into you exactly yeah let it
68:33
do this and
68:35
for example in yoga you sit down and
68:37
meditate whereas when it comes down to
68:39
you know Rogers teaching it’s like just
68:41
allow what I am telling you to sink into
68:44
you is only a description or a
68:45
prescription but it looks like a
68:48
prescription if you deliver the app to
68:52
me like you know some app exam and it
68:54
sinks into me that’s an action and
68:56
that’s an instruction and that’s a doer
68:57
ship so every teaching by itself if si
69:01
facto primer phase C happens to do a
69:03
ship so I say no I I completely it’s the
69:07
topic you’ve brought up is brilliant
69:08
right but there isn’t but is it that in
69:12
this doer ship the non-dual ship happens
69:14
it’s like you know this Jedi Star Wars
69:17
movies and you know you go ahead and the
69:19
last thing you go on and blast at them
69:21
you right there and everything collapses
69:23
is that this is the last weapon okay
69:26
that you know when I ask Siri a question
69:28
I tell her to do something right Siri
69:32
tell me where the nearest restaurant is
69:36
now I’m not talking to someone that I
69:40
believe is a doer I’m talking to a
69:42
programmed instrument but the instrument
69:47
is designed to follow input so if if I
69:53
were to say meditate for four hours a
69:55
day which the teaching doesn’t go that
69:58
isn’t that blatant I know that I’m not
70:02
speaking to a doer I’m speaking to a
70:04
biological instrument with genes and
70:06
up-to-date-conditioning and so that
70:09
statement which is a description so it’s
70:14
a harder I wouldn’t say meditate for
70:16
three hours a day what I could say is
70:20
and will if you listened to all of the
70:22
concept it’s very that this point is
70:24
really important to understand it says
70:26
what is happiness for the human being
70:29
happiness for the human being is peace
70:33
of mind and daily living I haven’t told
70:35
anyone to do anything the doer hears it
70:36
and says all I have to do peace of mind
70:38
and daily living happiness for the human
70:42
being is peace of mind in daily living
70:46
description
70:47
concept it’s a concept a concept me the
70:51
the Apple is red is a concept the
70:55
concept may be accurate or inaccurate so
70:59
next part so happiness for the human
71:02
being is peace of mind in daily living
71:05
peace of mind in daily living is just
71:08
the absence of suffering another
71:10
description peace of mind is the absence
71:13
of suffering what is suffering suffering
71:17
arises in the form of guilt blame pride
71:19
worry expectation description the then
71:23
and I think peace of mind continuous
71:26
unbroken peace of mind is available for
71:28
the human being in this life that’s the
71:32
liberation in practical terms that’s
71:35
available the end of suffering it’s
71:39
available a description so in all of
71:43
this
71:44
I have so I have to say this topic
71:46
doesn’t come up a lot but it’s so
71:48
important all right so we’re looking
71:50
I haven’t said for anyone to do anything
71:53
just descriptions the doers ship in us
71:59
listens to this and then the first
72:01
question it says is so how do I make how
72:04
do I do this how do I bring about the
72:08
end of suffering
72:09
Ramesh used to have a laugh you know
72:11
after 40 minutes of talking about Nandu
72:13
sure the first question that arises is
72:15
so how do I do this and it makes
72:24
complete sense because the deeply
72:26
ingrained belief of doership is there
72:27
now what it hears is a whole lot of
72:30
instruction about how life should look
72:32
for you life should not have suffering
72:34
and a life should be free of suffering
72:36
that’s what the the doer is hearing it’s
72:39
not hearing descriptions about life it’s
72:41
hearing about what it should achieve
72:44
what it needs to achieve so then there’s
72:47
okay how do I do it the answer is there
72:50
is no doer that’s the problem is you
72:55
want to know how to do it
72:59
that part of it sort of is landed on me
73:02
the other part is well every teacher has
73:05
her form of teaching it may be alpha
73:07
beta gamma delta teaching
73:22
now the new wave of new teachers in
73:26
yourself you see it’s the way we hear
73:46
the words this is why certain teachings
73:48
have come in and said there are no
73:49
teachings because they see that the way
73:53
we relate to teaching means oh I have to
73:58
learn something right I’m being told to
74:02
do it differently to the way it was
74:04
before is it not correct know how to
74:05
learn it learn something for that’s why
74:07
I come here just rule number one from
74:11
Ramana is it keep company with sages
74:16
that was verse one of the 46 verses keep
74:20
company of sages
74:21
why did he say I said if you keep the
74:23
company of sages it’s going to rub off
74:26
not some energy that’s going to it’s not
74:30
some transmission it’s that when the the
74:33
brahmana said silence is the best
74:35
teaching but we’re not ready for silence
74:36
so I’ll talk it was what he said so
74:41
so he talks and everything he says is
74:45
description so he talks about vasanas
74:47
and samskaras their descriptions their
74:51
descriptions that are received by the
74:53
intellect and hopefully because at some
74:57
point what happens is the intellect
74:58
receives and then we go off trying to do
75:00
something once the descriptions have
75:02
been received by the internet at some
75:04
point the intellect realizes that I’m
75:08
turning everything into a mission that’s
75:13
the thinking mind that hears it and
75:15
turns it into what do I do and when the
75:18
working mind sees sees the thinking mind
75:21
in action and it says this is the
75:24
problem and at when it’s a real insight
75:30
it’s like stop I don’t have to do it
75:37
it’s such a relief and so then the
75:41
thinking mind says well if I don’t do it
75:43
the house is going to happen I say it’s
75:45
already happening the insight came came
75:50
because the working mind was programmed
75:52
to catch the thinking mind trying to do
75:56
everything all the time so the working
75:58
mind saw it not as a doing of the
76:02
individual but as a happening according
76:04
to the genes and up-to-date-conditioning
76:05
of the body so that’s why teachings are
76:09
delivered because they they’re not
76:10
delivered to a doer they delivered to
76:13
the body mind organism that is a sponge
76:17
of new conditioning the teachings are
76:21
absorbed by this body mind mechanism and
76:23
the thinking went slowly settles down
76:25
and there’s only the working mind so
76:27
actually there is no door ship there is
76:29
actually a destruction of the concepts
76:31
which happens by the teachings yes and
76:33
even the thinking mind is not a doer a
76:36
thinking mind is just a belief into a
76:39
ship so it’s a it’s just a way that the
76:41
thinking mind functions and it’s
76:44
impersonal it’s based on the genes not
76:46
to date conditioning so even that the
76:50
doer isn’t actually a doer that is still
76:53
an impersonal
76:53
functioning of the human being so when
76:58
the working mind starts seeing this it
77:00
starts the the thinking mind starts
77:02
getting cut off and that’s not anyone’s
77:05
doing that’s a happening according to
77:06
your makeup
77:09
so when you say allow the concepts to
77:11
sink in you you imply that it will sink
77:14
in that I don’t have to do anything
77:16
about it it’s happening by itself you
77:18
see you ask the question and now and you
77:20
are answering and you and you know the
77:23
concepts so this is the things being in
77:26
satsang is the process happening once
77:29
you go out the door don’t worry about
77:30
what happened to now it’s already in
77:34
your system or it’s not someone might
77:36
have fallen asleep they didn’t hear
77:38
anything they go out and their
77:41
up-to-date-conditioning hasn’t changed
77:42
right or because it you know they might
77:46
have been asleep they think it hasn’t
77:48
changed and yet something in still has
77:51
changed them so we don’t know when you
77:55
go out and you stub your toe on you know
78:00
a pothole or something
78:01
the thought might arise ah and you might
78:06
look that the thinking might might arise
78:08
who shall I blame for this you start
78:10
blaming you know yourself or whatever um
78:14
and then the working mind sees that our
78:17
there’s the doer ship there’s the blame
78:19
or the guilt how does the working mind
78:22
see it it’s seen it because of your you
78:26
were affected by the new conditioning or
78:28
the pain arises and then a thought
78:32
arises this is pain in the moment it’s
78:34
part of the natural flow of life destiny
78:37
is always going to be either pleasure or
78:39
pain now if that thought arises where
78:42
did it come from it came from your
78:47
up-to-date-conditioning because if you
78:50
hadn’t listened to these particular
78:52
concepts the thought that’s pain in the
78:54
moment part of the flow of life that
79:00
thought wouldn’t have arisen so a
79:04
thought arising isn’t your doing it
79:07
happens automatically based on the
79:09
circumstance you find yourself in so all
79:15
your teachings are only descriptions of
79:17
concepts which will eradicate our old
79:21
conditioning and concepts I agree yes
79:23
that description descriptions what might
79:26
actually destroy I have through my
79:30
genetics and my upbringing from my
79:33
childhood I have certain belief systems
79:35
which characterize Who I am now while
79:38
listening to this those belief systems
79:41
get destroyed
79:42
yes so you’re actually aiming a missile
79:46
at me and I’m not doing anything sort of
79:48
that’s right it’s an antivirus antivirus
79:50
which goes in and corrupts this thinking
79:52
mind and the working mind works by
79:54
itself without the belief system that
79:56
you know I am doing it exactly but
79:58
whether the new conditioning layer or
80:02
how it lands not in my control and not
80:05
in your control I know that Roger is
80:07
also a robot and this person is also a
80:10
robot and this is happening through this
80:11
is how the Shakespearean drama works or
80:14
when I have to ask these questions yeah
80:16
correct that’s it according to your
80:19
genes and up-to-date-conditioning which
80:21
is not mine not not your doing so not
80:25
what I’m doing
80:25
not you this moment the war was
80:27
father-mother no it wasn’t even their
80:29
doing okay we go up to the chimpanzees
80:31
in the Big Bang the Big Bang is OK
80:33
universe give through that and this is
80:35
body here yes then I am NOT the body but
80:39
but you know like when you went the body
80:41
but I said you are the body it was a
80:44
human being
80:44
I’m the human being with the body and
80:46
the mind but nothing is mine a human
80:48
being is a body through which
80:50
consciousness functions so you are
80:52
conscious so I am also this body I am
80:56
also the mind and I am also the silence
80:58
and the consciousness that’s it this
81:01
Vedic statement of a hum brahmasmi I am
81:03
the universe I think you don’t agree
81:05
with that great
81:06
no I am the universe numbre must be um I
81:10
am that I am that what is the I in what
81:13
is the debt so it’s saying all there is
81:16
this consciousness everything is God
81:18
that that is what you said to Ramesh and
81:20
Ramesh
81:21
struck you down on the person who’s it’s
81:22
theory so what is the practice now after
81:27
about twenty years after meeting Ramesh
81:28
from that Roger to this Roger silver
81:31
Ramesh said when that I am that was
81:32
wrong and this is true yeah Ramesh said
81:34
I wouldn’t have called the book I am
81:36
that referring to nisargadatta main
81:38
teaching he said I would have called the
81:40
book I am that living is this a British
81:45
that title would you like to abridge it
81:48
further after after Ramesh
81:50
no I’m happy you’re happy with what is
81:52
it I am that living at this so is this I
81:54
also the creator of the universe no this
81:59
I is the manifestation of of that in
82:03
source yes sir in manifestation so weak
82:08
and even then at some point we we
82:11
dropped this I am sauce because I don’t
82:15
know that if you rest in your being if
82:16
you go into the deepest meditation where
82:20
the world form falls away and you are
82:24
there aware of being not being Elango
82:30
will Roger just the impersonal sense of
82:32
existence or self what Ramana refers to
82:35
herself you see doesn’t tell you where
82:39
it came from or what it is so even the
82:43
spiritual teaching concepts that say
82:46
when that self is realized and it might
82:50
add on some other stuff about then we
82:53
really we at some point which I don’t
82:55
know what I know is I am this is Rogers
82:59
experience but I am that book I was not
83:01
able to finish it I make about 60 to 70
83:03
percent but a lot of times nisargadatta
83:04
was always saying no the grand gesture
83:08
of I am you know yes because it’s what
83:11
did you say I couldn’t understand it
83:12
it’s a teaching he’s saying you are not
83:14
the body you are consciousness or source
83:17
god god it seems really Brum brahmin
83:21
robot or actually so when someone said
83:25
but you’re talking to and don’t miss
83:26
don’t put on to me your idea of yourself
83:29
I am NOT this body talking I am the
83:32
awareness and
83:33
everything is happening so do you do the
83:37
self all we know is the gross so
83:40
essentially the body and the thoughts
83:42
and the emotions and there is no
83:45
appreciation of anything else
83:48
particularly the awareness so it’s okay
83:50
how am I going to deal with this problem
83:52
someone who is heavily identified with
83:56
only one side of the coin so I’ll tell
83:59
them that side of the coin is not real
84:02
that is the illusion you want truth
84:05
don’t you I’ll tell you what is real
84:07
what is really self what is real is the
84:11
formless and if that’s the teaching it’s
84:17
a very effective teaching to move
84:19
attention onto that which hasn’t been
84:21
seen and then there is a realization of
84:24
the formless what tends to happen is we
84:27
are left with people that now are seeing
84:30
the other side of the coin and
84:32
disregarding the first side is
84:34
non-existence and so attention has gone
84:36
from heavily identified with one aspect
84:40
unaware of the other aspect in an
84:42
awakening to that aspect happens and
84:45
then you have a person going around
84:47
saying I’m not a person because the
84:50
experience which is now attention on the
84:53
the formless aspect of the human is only
84:57
seeing that and so now the persons have
84:59
been deluded but moving in the right
85:02
direction the the integration can happen
85:07
after that because now there is a
85:08
awakening to the self and the
85:11
consciousness and so once that has
85:14
happened it can be integrated back into
85:17
the human form so the Zen sayings is
85:22
before enlightenment mountains and
85:25
rivers were real seen as real during the
85:28
process of enlightenment mountains and
85:31
rivers were seen as unreal so that’s
85:32
when there is the realization of self
85:34
and so everything is an illusion it’s
85:37
all an arising in consciousness it’s all
85:39
made of this formless and the body isn’t
85:41
is also just that form us so during the
85:44
process of enlightenment mountains and
85:47
were seen as unreal the saying doesn’t
85:51
stop there the same thing goes after the
85:53
process of enlightenment mountains and
85:55
rivers are real again you have to come
85:57
back down here Riaan habits the body and
86:02
live life is the human being so when I
86:04
went to Ramesh I went to Ramesh’s the
86:08
human being that thought I was awareness
86:10
because that aspect had been recognized
86:15
but it had been recognized because the
86:18
teachings needed to tell me that I
86:19
wasn’t to the body just see that and
86:22
then I needed someone to say hey you
86:25
know stop you need to turn your
86:28
attention from the heavens back down to
86:31
down to here where you are the body you
86:36
are the human being you are Raja it’s a
86:41
process and that’s why the esoteric
86:44
top-down teachings are there but they’re
86:47
not the truth now even what I’m talking
86:50
about is not the truth that the teaching
86:51
says whatever is put forward is a
86:53
concept whatever teaching has ever been
86:56
put forward whatever anyone has ever
86:58
said in life as a concept not the truth
87:01
the only truth is the impersonal sense
87:05
of I am so it’s saying at the end of the
87:11
day all of these concepts are helpful to
87:14
bring about the end of a certain type of
87:16
thinking what we really need to fall
87:18
back on when the time is right is the
87:21
fact that I am I exist
87:22
this is undeniable that I exist in this
87:27
moment if someone denies that they exist
87:31
in this moment they’re really lost in
87:32
theory not they’re not being really
87:36
present with what is when we come back
87:38
to being really present with what is we
87:40
say I don’t know very much I just know
87:42
that I am that I can’t deny
87:52
if just for the sake of the recording
87:55
didn’t you say the I am thought is the
87:59
first illusion okay so the this is Nyssa
88:02
Gaddafi’s teaching right you’re
88:03
referring to you
88:04
so the I am thought in itself is like
88:08
what is the I am thought because the
88:10
sense of I am the feeling I don’t call
88:16
that the I am thought that is the sense
88:19
it’s direct it’s what we are at our core
88:24
what comes straight after that is where
88:29
it gets turned into I am this and I am
88:31
that so that’s where the first escaping
88:37
from our being happens is where I am and
88:41
then it’s like because the feeling is
88:44
there and the clothing is around is on
88:47
top of the core it’s like oh and then I
88:50
I am the body you know in a way that
88:55
doesn’t include the sense of I am
88:59
anymore
89:00
so we as we’re growing up the baby the
89:05
baby’s immersed in sort of ironist the
89:08
intellect hasn’t taken it out of that
89:10
yet and then the intellect forms and as
89:15
the child gets older and older it loses
89:18
that connection to the just the the
89:23
beingness and this process reawakens us
89:27
to that but we don’t end up being like a
89:29
baby in the end we end up being able to
89:32
hold the two together I am Roger but I
89:35
know Roger at its core it’s
89:38
consciousness but then I don’t go and
89:40
say that oh I am God
89:42
because I know my core so it’s it’s
89:48
about being able to pull together a lot
89:50
of aspects and one of the aspects that
89:53
falls away is saying I am Roger the doer
90:01
so when I know that I am Roger but I’m
90:05
not the doer I understand my connection
90:07
to source though we could say that
90:09
knowing this I am means that and knowing
90:12
that I am and everything is happening
90:14
the words are flowing out based on the
90:17
question that was asked and in my
90:19
response so I I am ice
90:24
I see everything happen and I remain
90:27
connected to source meaning I remain
90:28
grounded in my being which means when
90:33
something unfortunate happens the pain
90:35
of the moment is still there but our
90:39
groundedness in our being can remain and
90:42
that being is a sense of existence
91:04
if we come back to the happiness that
91:10
we’re looking for the absence of
91:12
suffering a lot of these nuances of the
91:18
experience become a little less
91:21
important because we can have a lot of
91:23
discussions about the nuance of the
91:25
nature of consciousness and it’s not
91:28
that it’s not useful it has its place
91:31
but it can often keep us distracted we
91:36
can spend years on the nuances of
91:42
consciousness and lose sight of the fact
91:45
that really it’s about the ending of
91:48
suffering in practical terms that’s what
91:52
really satisfies when the suffering
91:54
falls away the end of expectation the
91:59
end of guilt blame pride anxiety there
92:03
isn’t there isn’t a need for life to be
92:08
different and then you know this is all
92:12
I was ever looking for it’s and and I
92:15
mean listening to some of the
92:17
conversations which are I don’t set out
92:19
to do but if you’re in a cafe and you’re
92:21
sitting next to people and you hear some
92:23
of the conversations and some of the
92:26
questions and I think wow you know I
92:28
understand this is the process but
92:31
there’s a lot of confusion when certain
92:36
teachings are related to his truth
92:41
because the teaching delivers what needs
92:45
to at that phase and then once it’s done
92:47
we need to move on if we treat that
92:51
phase as the truth we don’t move on so
92:57
it’s a you know we can’t say oh it would
93:01
be better if those teachings weren’t
93:02
they we can’t take those teachings away
93:04
they play such a vital role at awakening
93:06
us to the nature of self
93:17
at the day-to-day level when I have a
93:20
problem before meeting you and after
93:22
meeting you if I have a problem every
93:24
day I have a problem right some
93:25
suffering what would be the take-home
93:27
message which I imply now I’m coming in
93:29
to do ership before meeting Roger and
93:33
after meeting Roger I have a problem
93:34
some problem some pain happening in life
93:38
after being in the satsangh what should
93:41
I
93:41
is there doing I should do that should
93:45
remove the end we should produce the end
93:47
of suffering apart from the teachings
93:51
that you have said now the last if if
93:54
the concepts take hold the suffering
94:00
when it arises will be seen it will be
94:04
categorized the dynamics at play in that
94:08
particular category of suffering will be
94:10
seen and if they’re seen if it’s known
94:14
that that’s a fiction that’s a way of
94:18
seeing myself and the other that is not
94:22
in line with what’s actually going on
94:25
right so if we have expectation
94:29
expectation is based on the belief that
94:32
might completeness is to be found in
94:34
outcomes being a particular way so when
94:37
expectation arises when someone sends as
94:39
a message and says sorry I won’t be able
94:42
to meet you for dinner as as planned
94:45
that’s pain in the moment not what you
94:48
would have liked let’s say not in line
94:50
with your preferences and then a feeling
94:54
can arise that is more than the pain
94:56
it’s resistance to this being the way it
95:00
is because we have an expectation and
95:01
the expectation is based on this idea of
95:05
myself that says I’m going to get
95:07
something more than just pleasure I’m
95:10
going to get something that’s going to
95:12
add to Who I am through this meeting
95:15
happening and now it’s been cancelled so
95:19
and that’s just not who we really are
95:22
we’re never going to be
95:24
more complete because we have a dinner
95:27
with someone so them canceling it is at
95:32
worst painful on a biological level but
95:36
it’s never an attack on Who I am so if
95:42
this situation happens and the
95:45
expectation resistance to this arises
95:47
and then the working mind sees it and
95:50
sees it for what it is that already
95:53
means the process is happening so you
95:58
don’t have to do it right I’m not
96:00
telling you to have the thought that
96:03
says oh I see this is expectation that
96:06
that thought will happen automatically
96:10
the thought that says this is
96:13
uncomfortableness this is unhappiness
96:15
this is a form of uncomfortableness it’s
96:18
its expectation it’s believing that I’m
96:22
going to be added to by this event
96:25
happening can we just magnify this a let
96:28
us say a multi-million dollar business
96:30
I’m doing I’m not doing that and then it
96:32
crashes something happens and I am in
96:34
debt there’s a big hit on me is it that
96:37
after listening to use as you said that
96:39
you have sunk and the antivirus into me
96:41
a working mind just sees it that it’s
96:44
happening on its own and there is you
96:46
know nobody doing this to me it all
96:49
happens spontaneously therefore you have
96:52
to just take it as it comes and it won’t
96:54
be if it’s at some point it’s not about
96:56
the working mind rationalizing okay the
96:58
working mind cuts off the thinking and
97:01
at some point the thinking mind has been
97:04
annihilated
97:04
so thoughtlessness so well the when you
97:08
then lose a large amount of money and I
97:10
can say that from experience these
97:12
things have happened before it this
97:17
happened I remember I was walking
97:18
through a park and I was in a good
97:20
financial situation and I thought wow if
97:22
my situation changed I don’t you know I
97:25
said it would be absolutely terrible six
97:27
months later everything that I had was
97:30
no longer and I was walking in the same
97:32
park remembering the thought with a
97:34
smile on my face
97:35
however what a ridiculous thought that
97:38
was how out of line with reality in
97:41
reality I had lost everything and I was
97:44
walking and I said that was just numbers
97:46
in a bank account I was walking in the
97:49
park it was a beautiful day I am like I
97:53
dress into your being like nothing’s
97:57
changed on the level of my being that’s
98:01
the difference between Roger and a lungo
98:02
that’s Roger there but in Elango and
98:05
other people mostly we are scared about
98:07
the meal tomorrow and about the you know
98:09
rent to the house and about the mortgage
98:11
to this and that and there is a pain
98:14
which happens pain and suffering
98:16
suffering so how do we end the suffering
98:18
at that point you see here you go again
98:20
yeah but this is what’s happening in
98:23
other it’s a cycle of you know teaching
98:25
and then Nandu ership and then do a ship
98:28
and Nandu er ship and do a ship and it’s
98:30
happening yeah yeah I mean it’s like you
98:34
know if if you it’s like you’re under a
98:36
shower and you’re telling me how do I
98:38
get wet correct so you can relax
98:49
and Roger on a lighter when you travel
98:53
Seca and Lisa canes at the spiritual
98:56
teaching level he has told multiple
98:58
times that romesha instructed her to
99:01
follow you and under your tutelage for
99:04
five years you had taught her I know
99:05
what and she comes under the
99:08
enlightenment what did he teach her five
99:10
years in the forest anything special
99:13
because she keeps on telling telling us
99:15
repeatedly at least I can have been
99:16
falling that for five years
99:18
Ramesh had instructed you know to follow
99:21
whatever Rodgers said and she did that
99:24
and at the end of it she was enlightened
99:26
I mean coat and coat so was there any
99:29
special treatment given to Lisa which
99:32
later when I tell we kept pointing out
99:36
that you’re not the doer life is a
99:40
happening the suffering when it arises
99:43
is a happening according to your makeup
99:45
and so if we get to if we see the
99:49
suffering and understand this is an
99:51
inevitability for this moment to be
99:54
there then a relaxation with what is
99:58
naturally happens because of the
100:00
understanding not because we do it we
100:02
just see it’s it’s like of course if a
100:05
bacteria comes into my system there’s
100:07
going to be a sickness if there are
100:11
certain beliefs in the system there is
100:13
going to be a certain reaction of
100:15
uncomfortableness so then we stop
100:18
resisting it and the stopping of
100:21
resisting it is in fact the ending of it
100:23
and yet and we say no it’s here what
100:27
shall I do with it they’re doing it
100:29
that’s in the sense of resistance of it
100:30
it’s like allow it to be but I’m not
100:34
just saying allow it to be allowed to be
100:35
on the basis of the understanding that
100:37
it has to be because the way life is so
100:41
that’s the teaching that was put forward
100:44
you’re not the doer and your happiness
100:45
isn’t to be found in outcomes drop into
100:48
your own being and Here I am
100:52
that’s a doer ship drop into your own
100:54
you see it’s a description of what might
100:56
happen but just now you said drop into
100:59
your being is a command no you see
101:01
that’s how you really like
101:02
example drop into a well they open to a
101:04
being yeah yeah it’s a command no when
101:06
you change the word to description so
101:10
nobody knows what happens in falling in
101:12
love I don’t know yeah correct yeah so
101:18
once once we here so tomorrow remind me
101:20
we will go through what will sound like
101:24
a prescription of how to drop into being
101:26
right but actually it will be a
101:28
description of a whole lot of things
101:31
like and you might find one day maybe
101:34
the day after the talk Corden that
101:37
dropping into being happens and then you
101:40
realize ah it was never a prescription
101:42
it was a description of what might
101:45
happen what might happen after I heard
101:47
the description that sounded like a
101:49
prescription so you’re sort of late
101:51
becoming an astrologer predicting events
101:53
no because how what is said will affect
101:57
you or I it’s not in our control we have
102:01
we’re not in control of the outcome so
102:04
we won’t bother about predicting I’d
102:10
love to keep it going but we have a
102:13
tight schedule with the hotel so I
102:16
invite everyone or anyone that has a
102:20
resonance with what’s said to come back
102:24
again tomorrow be here till the 23rd
102:27
you’re very welcome we sort of scratched
102:30
the surface I’ll say a lot of the same
102:32
things over and over but hopefully at
102:34
the end of it if people keep coming back
102:37
you’ll see there is very much a
102:39
framework a set of descriptions that
102:43
without any effort while you’re going
102:45
through your daily life ordering at a
102:49
cafe walking down the street doing your
102:52
work you’ll start to see what maybe was
102:57
a big Mis mash of life in terms that are
103:02
really useful at undoing the suffering
103:05
and revealing the self

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